Hard Drive issue between Os6 and OsX

[FrequencyX]

Hello, I am new here and have limited experience with Mac systems. My father in law uses his Mac CxII quite frequently untill recently. He received the flashing question mark error message when trying to boot into the OS.

He did not have any Apple utlities or boot disk's for attempting to repair the issue. I told him I could try to extract the data and I proceeded to take the SCSI hard drive with me and picked up an Adaptec SCSI card.

We have a G4 here at work that I hooked it up to and it detected it just fine and loaded the Disk Utility with the famliar message "We could not detect the volume etc"..with the choices initialize,ignore and continue. I tried initialize but I do not have any option to chose and First Aid will not even check the drive. It doesn't seem to really let me do a whole lot. I was assuming the OS's were using the same type of file system HFS etc..

Any ideas on how to retrieve this information from his hard drive and extract it to the G4 so I can burn a CD? There is very very critical information, and I am trying to help him out to the best of my abilities.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[MisterMe]

It is System 6, not MacOS 6 and the computer is the Macintosh IIcx. Why would you try to format a disk before you try to recover the data on it? On Apple's website, you can find disk image files that will allow you to create bootable System 6 and System 7 installation floppies. These also have disk image files for Disk First Aid bootable floppies. If his hard drive has enough capacity, I really recommend that you get someone to upgrade the OS to System 7.1. But first have this person ensure that your dad's software will run on System 7.1. Most System 6 software will, but some won't.

[FrequencyX]

For 1 cut me some slack, I already mentioned that I am not famliar with MAC's and I didn't mean to hurt your feelings for not saying System 6 and CxII instead of a IIcx.

And 2 I am not formatting the hard drive, that is what I am trying to avoid I am trying to extract the information from the drive.. That is all.

Sytem 6 is fine for that system since 7 tends to take a quite a bit more resources that I would like. He only has 8MB of ram

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by FrequencyX

We have a G4 here at work that I hooked it up to and it detected it just fine and loaded the Disk Utility with the famliar message "We could not detect the volume etc"..with the choices initialize,ignore and continue. I tried initialize but I do not have any option to chose and First Aid will not even check the drive.

-and-

And 2 I am not formatting the hard drive, that is what I am trying to avoid I am trying to extract the information from the drive.. That is all.

If you tried initialize, then you erased the disk. Initializing a drive erases all information on a volume.

Sytem 6 is fine for that system since 7 tends to take a quite a bit more resources that I would like. He only has 8MB of ram

System 7 runs great on as little as 4 MB of RAM on systems much slower than a IIcx.

I ran System 7.1 on my Macintosh SE/30 (same processor at the same speed as the IIcx, a 68030 at 16 MHz) with 8 MB of RAM for years running high end applications of the time. In System 6 a IIcx can't take advantage of virtual memory or any modern apps that can't handle a 24 bit environment.

Besides, these days there is no reason to be running a IIcx at only 8 MB of RAM. 2 and 4 MB SIMMs for that system are dirt cheap. Of course, the hardware won't recognize more than 8 MB of RAM while running in System 6... you need System 7 or later with Mode32 or 32-bit Enabler to access the hardware's true potential (it has a physical maximum of 128 MB of RAM).

Just because the Macintosh IIcx is an older system doesn't mean it doesn't have a ton of potential. And all that potential is pretty easy to add these days... but it all starts with the operating system. System 6 is crippling your father's IIcx.


Honestly, finding a competent Mac service person with experience with that vintage would be your best bet at this point... specially if you initialized the drive (your going to need an expert now).

I know that in my area I'm unique in my knowledge of vintage systems. Most Mac service people these days wouldn't have the hardware or software to deal with that situation.


Well, hope everything works out for you and your father.

[FrequencyX]

Originally Posted by RacerX

If you tried initialize, then you erased the disk. Initializing a drive erases all information on a volume.

System 7 runs great on as little as 4 MB of RAM on systems much slower than a IIcx.

I ran System 7.1 on my Macintosh SE/30 (same processor at the same speed as the IIcx, a 68030 at 16 MHz) with 8 MB of RAM for years running high end applications of the time. In System 6 a IIcx can't take advantage of virtual memory or any modern apps that can't handle a 24 bit environment.

Besides, these days there is no reason to be running a IIcx at only 8 MB of RAM. 2 and 4 MB SIMMs for that system are dirt cheap. Of course, the hardware won't recognize more than 8 MB of RAM while running in System 6... you need System 7 or later with Mode32 or 32-bit Enabler to access the hardware's true potential (it has a physical maximum of 128 MB of RAM).

Just because the Macintosh IIcx is an older system doesn't mean it doesn't have a ton of potential. And all that potential is pretty easy to add these days... but it all starts with the operating system. System 6 is crippling your father's IIcx.


Honestly, finding a competent Mac service person with experience with that vintage would be your best bet at this point... specially if you initialized the drive (your going to need an expert now).

I know that in my area I'm unique in my knowledge of vintage systems. Most Mac service people these days wouldn't have the hardware or software to deal with that situation.


Well, hope everything works out for you and your father.

Thank you Racer-X.. I didn't realize Intializing the disk would erase it. Well it was only a 40mb drive and a couple of weeks ago I mentioned to him start erasing or backing up some information since it was close to being full. Im guessing the hard drive filled up and possibly corrupted the os. Im not sure though.

Thanks Again

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by FrequencyX

Well it was only a 40mb drive...

That was most likely the drive it came with from the factory... which means it was made in 1987-88.

There is a good chance that the drive maybe completely dead. Most drives have a life expectancy of about 7 to 10 years. That one was pushing 20.

A replacement SCSI drive of about 500 MB would be an ideal start for getting that system back up and running. That is the size I have in my IIcx currently.

[FrequencyX]

Originally Posted by RacerX

That was most likely the drive it came with from the factory... which means it was made in 1987-88.

There is a good chance that the drive maybe completely dead. Most drives have a life expectancy of about 7 to 10 years. That one was pushing 20.

A replacement SCSI drive of about 500 MB would be an ideal start for getting that system back up and running. That is the size I have in my IIcx currently.

Well I guess I tried.. I would like to learn more about Mac's and I am begining to appreciate them more and more. You can't beat the stability,security and user interface that Mac os's have to offer.

Have any good ideas on where I can obtain a used SCSI drive to replace ? Any good sites you recommend?

Also since the IIcx has the older floppy standard, how hard will it be to get the System 7 os disks onto the disks? I will be using either the G4 Online to download or my PC.?

[RacerX]

There is the rub...the software may be free to download from Apple, but you need a system that can deal with it. Part of the reason I have hardware spanning so many years is that I can always find some system that will let me do something I need to do.

You'll most likely need a pre-Mac OS X system with a floppy drive. Disk Copy can create the floppies from the images at Apple.

The alternative is to find someone (like me) in your area who can still create the disks. For example, I would charge about $10 labor for creating the floppies (assuming that the blank floppies are provided) for System 7.5.3 installation disks and the System 7.5.5 update disks. That should give you an idea of what would be reasonable... then again, I'd most likely install 7.5.5 on that system and bump the RAM up to 16 MB for $10, but I like older systems.

You can find the images here:

System 7.5.3 Boot/tools disk
System 7.5.3 install disks
System 7.5.5 Update disks

You can find System 7 documentation here:

System 7 Documentation

As for finding a replacement drive... I know a number of local places I go to for parts, and I see that there is a 160 MB drive at Shreve Systems for $29.

The best way to find out about resources in your area would be at local Mac user group meetings.

Hope that helps a little.