Mac Pro - 2.66GHz vs. 3GHz - What can I expect?

[dmetzcher]

I'm looking into buying a new Mac Pro so that I can (1) get a Mac desktop, and (2) get rid of/replace my Dell PC, and have something more all-in-one. I've been drooling over the 3GHz model, but I finally got over that today, and the price difference hit me. 2.66GHz is not that far away from 3GHz, when you factor in the additional $800 the faster chip will cost you. So here is my question: Should I go ahead and buy the cheaper 2.66GHz model, and focus on a better video card and more RAM, or is the 3GHz model really going to be worth the extra money?

Basically, is the 3GHz processor worth the extra money? I will be using the machine mostly for Xcode and gaming (on the Windows and Mac sides), and don't do any video or sound editing. I like the idea of the Mac Pro, because I can easily upgrade it later, and I'm willing to pay for that. I have an iBook that I will use on the road, and for email, calendar, and office applications. I do want to watch movies on the machine, and jack it into my TV, but I can do that on my iBook right now, so I can't imagine it matters much.

Here are two configurations I'm looking at...

2.66GHz
2GB RAM (which will probably become 3GB in six months)
500GB Hard Drive
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Bluetooth and Airport
Keyboard and Mouse
Price: $3,388
(This price could even be lowered $250 with a cheaper video card, which could be upgraded later.)

3.0GHz
1GB RAM (which will probably become 2GB in six months)
500GB Hard Drive
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
Bluetooth and Airport
Keyboard and Mouse
Price: $3,638

Note that the second system has the lesser graphics card, with only 256MB of RAM, as opposed to the 512MB model. I'm thinking that I could get this same card in the first system, and save myself another $250, and just upgrade the video card later.

The system I really want is...
3.0GHz
2GB RAM (which will probably become 3GB in six months)
500GB Hard Drive
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Bluetooth and Airport
Keyboard and Mouse
Price: $4,188

It's just too high. I wanted to keep the price near $3,000. The closer, the better.

I apologize for the long post, and thank anyone who reads through it, and replies, in advance. I just want to kick this idea around with a few people (or a few hundred), and I am the only Mac user that I know, so I can't really do it in person with friends.

Thanks!

[bobw]

This would be my choice, with ram up to 3GB from a different vendor;

2.66GHz
2GB RAM (which will probably become 3GB in six months)
500GB Hard Drive
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Bluetooth and Airport
Keyboard and Mouse
Price: $3,388

Benchmarks

Benchmarks

Benchmarks

[dmetzcher]

Originally Posted by bobw

This would be my choice, with ram up to 3GB from a different vendor;

2.66GHz
2GB RAM (which will probably become 3GB in six months)
500GB Hard Drive
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Bluetooth and Airport
Keyboard and Mouse
Price: $3,388

Benchmarks

Benchmarks

Benchmarks

Thanks for the info, Bob. I'm reading through the Benchmarks now. So far, it seems that, for my purposes, the 2.66GHz model, loaded with more RAM, will fit nicely, and save me several hundred dollars. I forgot to mention that I do use Photoshop extensively, but not for terribly intensive work (Web graphics, mostly). I'm not so concerned about the Photoshop-under-Rosetta results, however.

One more question: How easily are the CPUs upgraded, say, two years into the future? I've build a few PCs before, but have never upgraded the CPU in one. I typically just built another, or bought a new Dell. Would you say that it will be likely that I could upgrade the CPU to over 3GHz later, when the new processors come out and the prices drop a bit? Is the cost to upgrade higher later? I don't mind paying later to upgrade the machine. It's easier to do that over time, rather than all at once.

Also, I have not read about any problems with the Mac Pro yet. With everything going on with the first-generation MacBooks and MacBook Pros, I thought I would have read something about a problem with this model by now. Are we over the first-generation Intel hump yet, as far as this model goes?

As far as third-party RAM, I've found pricing that puts it at about $185 per 1GB module, so that won't be a problem. 3GB should be easy to do right away, with more room later to add additional RAM.

Thanks for taking the time to post the benchmarks. They are rather interesting. The processor in the GHz model is a bit faster, for sure, but I don't think, for my purposes, that it's worth the $800 price tag. :-)

[bobw]

The CPU's are supposed to be upgradeable, plugs in. Someone will come out with newer processors in the future.

I keep reading, and haven't seen any reports of major problems with the Mac Pro, other than some external drives causing problems, which I don't care about.

[dmetzcher]

Originally Posted by bobw

The CPU's are supposed to be upgradeable, plugs in. Someone will come out with newer processors in the future.

I keep reading, and haven't seen any reports of major problems with the Mac Pro, other than some external drives causing problems, which I don't care about.

That's good news. Thanks.

As far as the external drives, I have a few of them, two LaCie FireWire drives, and a USB drive. I'm only concerned about eh LaCia drives, but I'm sure that if LaCie drives we affected, we'd have heard something by now.

Do you have more information (links, etc.) on the external drive issues? I'm a little curious. Thanks.

[bobw]

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...60822082303180


This is from MacFixIt;

Mac Pro (#6): More on startup issues, random freezes caused by external devices
We continue to report on an issue where various external devices can cause problems starting up, or unexpected system freezes/kernel panics when attached to the Mac Pro.

Errant external devices have long been known to be a cause of such issues, as outlined in our "Startup Fails" and "System-wide Freezes" tutorials. However, it appears that some otherwise unproblematic (when used with other Macs) devices are causing these issues with the Mac Pro. It is not uncommon for previously functional devices to experience issues with a new system architecture.

MacFixIt reader Harley Licht writes:

"I recently had a problem with my new MacPro (Dual 2.66 with 2GB and two internal 500GB HDD) hanging during boot for extensive periods of time. During these hangs, it appeared that the computer was not responsive to any keyboard input. It was stalled at the white screen. (ie .. no Apple logo). I tried booting from a CD, use "C" during boot up... I tired using the "Option" key to allow boot drive selection, and I tried CMD S, in an attempt to get into single user mode. All of these keyboard attempts appeared to be unrecognized. Then I noticed, that eventually, after some number of minutes, the computer would finally boot by itself. It was as if it was stuck in a loop and when the loop timed out, the computer finally decided to boot.

"I finally managed to get into single user mode and noticed that it was looping during boot, due to an 'inability to enumerate a USB Device.' And I did have a hub with a number of USB devices connected at the time.

"I removed the entire hub and its associated devices and the computer proceeded to boot properly."

"At the moment I have all of my USB devices attached directly to the USB ports on the computer and everything appears to be working fine. The hub is no longer in use. So at the moment, I suspect my USB hub but I need to confirm that."

MacFixIt reader JJ Mackey reports a similar issue with a FireWire-based audio mixer.

"I have a Mac Pro w 2.66 upgraded (third party) ram to 3 gigs. I have an Alesis Multimix 12 Fire wire mixer that I think has been causing my black screen. I also have a 400 gig Seagate firewire drive plugged in. The computer hangs when I try to wake it up in the morning. I have had a few black screen freezes when plugging the above drives."

As noted in our tutorials and in other coverage, the best bet for eliminating these issues is to use a trial-and-error process with all externally connected USB and FireWire devices. Problematic PCI cards, improperly seated (or bad) RAM and misconfigured network connections can also cause similar issues.

=========================

Mac Pro technical notes: Processors are upgradeable, model string identifier, more
We have some unconfirmed notes from the Mac Pro service manual:

The Mac Pro ships with Mac OS X 10.4.7
The value of the computer model machine identifier string is MacPro1,1.
The Xeon processors are socketed, using dual 771 pin LGA sockets. This means that the processors may be upgradeable
Airport antennae are located on the bottom of the machine, covered by plastic.
The Mac Pro is the first Intel-based Mac to have an Intel-native version of Mac OS X 10.4.x Server available as a custom option.

[dmetzcher]

That's interesting...
Do you think this is likely a software issue, or hardware based? I'm thinking Apple will correct it, eventually, if it is software-based, but hardware issues are more of a problem, and Apple would have to recall and repair.