Simple mind

[Michael]

Ok, so I have had MacOSX beta for six months. Its very little use to me because I can't print, listen to music or surf the net (doesn't want to connect for some reason). However, I've been getting to know how it works.

It looks great ...but. Here's a simple question from a non technical user.

Exactly what is better about it, for me, than MacOS9?

Yes, yes I have heard about the technical advances. But I've been telling my Windows using freinds for years that the two key advantages of the Mac over Windows are

a) It's a more intuitive system - easier to learn and more flexible in use.

and

b) When it goes wrong, even a complete ignoramus like me can (usually) fix it.

At a stroke, Apple has removed these two key advantages.

It's all very well for you technical types to get off on the technicalities. But if I buy a computer, as a general user, I don't give a damn about any of that. I want to use my computer as a tool, TO DO THINGS WITH. Not as an end in itself.

The 'crunch' is going to come when Apple finally pre-installs OSX
on their hardware as the default operating system.

Because then, rather than the Apple OS being the user-freindly one - it will be Windows that has the advantage.

An example. Apple made a big thing about putting the Apple menu
back in the final release. Except that it hasn't. Unlike all MacOS's up to now you can't keep your key applications there, ready to hand.

Instead, you have either to trawl through the folders and sub-folders to find the application or clutter your desktop with icons (which is messy - and they are usually obscured by the applications you are already running.)

Can you use the dock? Well no - because you have to launch the applications first. All the dock does is act like the drop down menu at the far right of OS9 - and less efficiently because it takes longer for the eye to scan it.

It seems to me that what we have here is symptomatic of our shallow, visually-oriented culture. It looks good. So it is 'cool'. Does it work any better? Well, er, no.

This is a disasterous move for Apple, however good the OS underpinnings are.

[Pascal]

Right now, I believe that everybody agrees that Mac OS X is not perfect, but that it has a promising future...

Many functionalities are still missing in OS X 10.0.0... some bad mouths go as far as to say that this version is "public beta 2". While I would not go as far, I would certainly say that this release is more akin to a "version 0.9" than a "version 1.0".

Since you tried the public beta, you certainly noticed how painful it was to use. I agree with you : there was not really a lot one could do with the PB. But consider all the improvements that have been done in the six months that separate the PB from version 10.0.0 ! My feeling is that in the four months that will lead to July, Apple will finish up most of what is missing (the infamous CD/DVD drivers, the video accelerators, some interface tweaks based on user feedback)... and by then, Mac OS X will be fully usable by the traditional Mac user.

<FONT SIZE=-2>(I hope ! )</FONT>

[AdmiralAK]

I was (and still am) able to isten to music and surf the net from the beta (56k modem).

I still have not gotten OS X final due to the fact that it is "1.0" software and stuff still needs to be added andsoftware needs to be made for it.

Once OS X 1.1 or 1.2 rolls out then you can use it like you use OS 9 now. It will be simple to learn and fix. I have not run into many bombs where my computer froze in pre-x systems and there was nothing other than that I could fix.

In OS X the sad mac-bomb is the kernel panic which you probably wont see that often.

Each OS has its learning curve, (its not like star trek where you speak to it and it does something). OS X probably has the same learning curve as the regular mac. It still has the apple menu, it has the dock, and the desktop is still there to put your files on.


Admiral

[Michael]

I accept the OS is still in development, but unless Apple restores full functionality to the Apple menu, the finder is going to be a pain in the neck to use. Even Windows doesn't ask you to hunt about on your desktop or in your folders for applications.

Secondly, there is no chance that someone without IT training is going to get to grips with the complexities of UNIX. That may not matter to most of the folk who post on this site - but to the general user, the fact that you have to call in a specialist every time something goes wrong is a big step backwards.

[AdmiralAK]

I seriously dont get what people's fascination with the apple menu is.
I mean its nice to have a little apple there, it adfds to the nice decor, and it is
a fast place to add your control panels, chooser etc for easy access...other than that
I dont see how much of use it is! Why are people using it as a "start menu" ? It makes no sense
to me whatsoever! I have some apps there but 99% of the time I launch them another way,
so he apple menu isnt really utilized.


As for UNIX, people who dont want to use the terminal do not have to. For basic users its
quite simple to use the GUI for everyday use. IF you are an admin, yes you will have to learn
so that you can be all that you can be. If something goes horribly wrong one does not have to be an expert right off the bat. They can just reinstall like I did when I got my first mac and had my first (and second and third and fourth etc) sad face and it wouldnt boot up. Now I know how to get around. People will learn.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by Michael
Secondly, there is no chance that someone without IT training is going to get to grips with the complexities of UNIX. That may not matter to most of the folk who post on this site - but to the general user, the fact that you have to call in a specialist every time something goes wrong is a big step backwards.

You can count me in : I am truly not interested in having to type "sudo" every time I want to change "that" or add "this" to Mac OS X. My belief, however, is that Apple did a pretty good job of shielding the users from the Unix underpinnings without preventing others to tinker in the motor if they wish to do so...

This being said, since the OS is in its infancy :
- many utilities that we were used to have in Classic Mac OS don't work anymore (TechTool, Norton)
- many habits we had in Classic Mac OS don't apply anymore (It crashed ? No : it is not an extension problem !)
- and, in some cases, the unix-to-MacOS have not been build into the system (a way to control and program Cron)
- or a way to change options in the Mac OS per say have not been thought of (a way to change the size of the font in the Finder)

But this should change, I believe, between now and the end of the year...

[sfish]

<blockquote>
<font face="werdana,arial,helvetica" size="1">quote:</font>
<hr><FONT face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2" ><i>Michael said:</i>
<b>"I accept the OS is still in development, but unless Apple restores full functionality to the Apple menu, the finder is going to be a pain in the neck to use. Even Windows doesn't ask you to hunt about on your desktop or in your folders for applications. "</b></font>
<hr>
</blockquote>If you drag your hard drive onto your dock you will have instant access to everything (up to about 5 folders deep) on your hard drive by just control-clicking the hard drive's icon in the dock. This this can be done with any folder on your hard drive as well.

[Hobeaux]

I, too, don't understand why people wanted to use the apple menu as a launch-point. If you put your hard drive alias into it you would have to navigate several levels before finding what you wanted anyway.

Of course, some folks just put an alias to their Applications directory in the Apple menu -- but Mac OS X has that shortcut built into every window, AND there is a command-key shortcut right to it (command-option-a), AND if you really want to have a browsable 'start menu' then just drag your Applications folder to the Dock -- you can then right-click on the folder to bring up the pop-up scrolling menu to the folder.

Not fast enough? Not direct enough?

Make a folder, give it a custom icon if you like, then drag aliases to all your most-used applications to it. Then drag that folder to the Dock.

BANG

right-click on it (or control-click, or click and hold) and you have instant access to all of those apps.

Hey, you can even break it down into categories if you like -- Internet, General Apps, Games, or whatever.

"But I want my Apple Menu like it was!" Get over it, that was just a kludge anyway. Mac OS X has been completely rethought and laid out more logically:

Apple Menu: System-specific items which can now be accessed from what ever app you are in, without having to click to the Finder first. Recent Items, Force Quit, Sleep, Restart, Shut Down, Logout, etc.

[application]: When an app is launched a menu item with its name appears which contains application-specific items. About this [application], Application Preferences, Services, Hide, Hide Others, Quit.

File: Finally file-specific information is located solely under the File menu, instead of the mix-match of file and application items. Open, Close, Save, Print, Etc.

Notice that items are arranged logically. OS-specific items are in the OS (apple) Menu, Application-specific items are in the Application's menu, and File-specific items are under the File menu.

The mix-matching junk that we all got used to has finally been addressed. Abandon the old way of working, it really didn't make that much sense to begin with.

Oh, by the way -- the Public Beta was interesting, but it sucked. The retail version is far, far better -- missing some features, sure... but overall, a much better experience.