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TICKET ARCHIVE -> 2002 Emac With a Frustrating Problem Part 2
cloudysky1 - Sep 13, 2005 - 12:46 am
This is a query that has been partially answered before... unfortunately, I was unaware that there was a time limit on the time to reply to the answer of my initial question given to my by the previous tech-person. Macosx.com has asked me to resubmit my question with another tech-support person. I have included the reply sent to me plus my additional information that includes queries on possible reasons for my problem(s). Thank you in advance for any advice you may pass on to me.
***************************************************************
On Sep 9, 10:08pm Marco wrote:
I have a 2002 eMac, the last version that had the ability to run both OSX (10.3) and OS 9.2.2. After running Alsoft's Optimizer Plus it appears that I have a fragmentation problem that might stem from files that were produced in/from OS 9.2.2. Needless to say, I've been having a frustrating time trying to find out how to resolve the fragmentation issue.
I decided to run Optimizer Plus because I noticed that my computer was slowing down somewhat whenever opening up a folder, application or when on-line, the icon begins to spin (rainbow-like) almost always now whenever doing the simplest task. I had called Alsoft to ask them how to solve the problem and they are the ones who told me to use Optimizer Plus.
Don't get me wrong, it is still a speedy machine and crunches with the best of them... it just seems so much slower now than when I purchased it back in May '03 and I worry about my computer locking up one day from extreme fragmentation (As it is Optimizer Plus indicated moderate fragmentation back in March of this year).
Of the 40 gigs that came stock with the machine's hard drive, 6.75 gigs remain (up from 3.5!). I've 2 external hard drives which are somewhat of my ace-in-the-hole should my computer crash and burn, but I'm trying to correct the problem before that happens.
I use Diskwarrior every 30-60 days to try and keep the system happy (Sometimes Diskwarrior will tell me that there isn't disk space and to create more "contiguous" memory so I try to increase HD space by burning folders to a CD). I have conversed with Alsoft about the issue and they were sad to inform me that their Optimizer/Plus could only partially solve my problem as the issue stems from the OS 9.2.2 side of the startup disc. I've been searching for other software finally finding Techtools Pro 4, wondering if it would help defrag the hard drive or make the problem more complex, or worse, damage my hard drive.
I am a graphic designer and musician... using a myriad of graphics and music applications (of course though not at the same time), I store my creations on all three hard drives to be safe. I am not an Information Technology whiz, but I've learned a number of things down the road and consider myself somewhat adept at using a Mac. Sometimes the problem is rather daunting and I'm happy that I've found Macosx.com and it's free-tech-support-answer website... hope that whoever answers my question will be able to solve this problem.
Many thanks!
Marco
Response(s)
On Sep 9, 10:40pm Carolyn S. wrote:
Hello Marco,
<>
I think you solved our own problem. If you are only down to 6.75gb's... you are short on hard drive space! Can you move some of your files to one or both of your external drives??? Since you do graphics design and have music files, they both take up major drive space.
Also, are you running Disk Utility at least once a week??? If not, go to your MacintoshHD>Applicaitions>Utilities. In the Utilities folder is Disk Utility.
Double click on that and run Repair Permissions. This can solve a lot of problems. Also, go to www.versiontracker.com and get OnyX It's a FREEware utility that runs maintenance and cleans logs and caches and it does a superb job. Easy to download and install... I run it a minimum of once a week and recommend it to people who post here with good feedback.
Now since you are running 9.2.2, you might try turning off Extensions that you aren't using in the Extension Manager. That can help your eMac run faster and smoother.
Try the suggestions I've made and please post back to let me know how it's going!
Carolyn :-)
On Sep 11, 10:01pm Marco wrote:
Carolyn,
Many thanks for your kind reply to my Mac-query... your advice was great and so far I've been able to implement some of your suggestions.
Positives:
a) I've increased my eMac hard drive space from 6.75 to 7.93 gigabytes.
b) I've been able to download a copy of OnyX utility, albeit version 1.5.2 as I am running OSX 10.3.
c) I've run Diskwarrior on all my hard drives.
d) I've repaired permissions on Disk Utility.
Negatives:
1) Although I've increased my HD space as shown, my system still seems slower than 6 months ago. I'm wondering if I've somehow, somewhere or another been snagged by spyware (I've been very careful surfing the 'net, although I know these days anyone is fair game for spyware, PC or Mac user alike).
2) OnyX seems a formidable program, unfortunately there aren't any instructions in English. It appears that the creators of OnyX are based in France, causing a number of people problems in knowing how to best set the program's parameters and preferences, ultimately damaging or erasing their data. This is somewhat of a conundrum... I feel it's dangerous to try and run the program on my computer and inadvertently delete a file (or files) the computer needs to operate on. (There are some complaints about this on "versiontracker.com".)
3) Diskwarrior has been my ever faithful standby utility, but as I've said before... it will not defrag a hard drive.
4) TechTools Pro 4 seems great, but I've now read reviews by individuals who have used the software to disastrous results. (Sigh)
Additional computer system information I left out on my last e-mail:
i) Much of the hard drive space on my eMac is being used by necessary Apple and second party software/plug-ins, and I'm not exactly sure if deleting some of these programs will cause my eMac to freeze-up or work incorrectly.
ii) Most, if not all of my graphics, music, and business applications are on my large and backup hard drives (160 Gb LaCie and 80 Gb LaCie respectively). My 16 Gigabytes worth of iTune songs are there (on my large HD), and even then, they are converted to MP3's to conserve space.
iii) I've been having some problems with my computer for the last 8 or 9 months, mostly with a jittery screen (jiggles slightly from side to side and shimmers at the bottom when an application is on). Since I have a service agreement, I've had the company where I purchased it at replace the video board (according to their tech support assumptions of the symptoms). Could the logic board actually be the culprit of my computer's problems? They replaced the video board but my screen is still exhibiting the same symptoms, so I'm thinking it might be something else like the logic board.
iv) My eMac and peripherals are connected to an APC 350 backup battery system that I purchased in 2003 as well. Could the backup battery now be old, causing damage to my eMac, and need replacing?
Like I mentioned before, I'm not an Information Technology expert, but I have learned much in the 10 years I've been using Macs, enough to get me around the tough spots. This problem, on the other hand, is out of my league and is frustrating.
My apologies for this late addition of information and questions... the night I e-mailed you, I was somewhat occupied with an ongoing family crisis and being a disabled individual just made everything that much more intense and time consuming where I omitted the above information. I do hope that I'm not overburdening you with this new message and request.
Sincerely,
Marco
***************************************************************
I've tried to include as much information as possible to help you, the tech-support, better diagnose the problem. Should you need more information, feel free to include any questions of your own that I can answer back in a reply.
Many, many thanks!
Marco
***************************************************************
On Sep 9, 10:08pm Marco wrote:
I have a 2002 eMac, the last version that had the ability to run both OSX (10.3) and OS 9.2.2. After running Alsoft's Optimizer Plus it appears that I have a fragmentation problem that might stem from files that were produced in/from OS 9.2.2. Needless to say, I've been having a frustrating time trying to find out how to resolve the fragmentation issue.
I decided to run Optimizer Plus because I noticed that my computer was slowing down somewhat whenever opening up a folder, application or when on-line, the icon begins to spin (rainbow-like) almost always now whenever doing the simplest task. I had called Alsoft to ask them how to solve the problem and they are the ones who told me to use Optimizer Plus.
Don't get me wrong, it is still a speedy machine and crunches with the best of them... it just seems so much slower now than when I purchased it back in May '03 and I worry about my computer locking up one day from extreme fragmentation (As it is Optimizer Plus indicated moderate fragmentation back in March of this year).
Of the 40 gigs that came stock with the machine's hard drive, 6.75 gigs remain (up from 3.5!). I've 2 external hard drives which are somewhat of my ace-in-the-hole should my computer crash and burn, but I'm trying to correct the problem before that happens.
I use Diskwarrior every 30-60 days to try and keep the system happy (Sometimes Diskwarrior will tell me that there isn't disk space and to create more "contiguous" memory so I try to increase HD space by burning folders to a CD). I have conversed with Alsoft about the issue and they were sad to inform me that their Optimizer/Plus could only partially solve my problem as the issue stems from the OS 9.2.2 side of the startup disc. I've been searching for other software finally finding Techtools Pro 4, wondering if it would help defrag the hard drive or make the problem more complex, or worse, damage my hard drive.
I am a graphic designer and musician... using a myriad of graphics and music applications (of course though not at the same time), I store my creations on all three hard drives to be safe. I am not an Information Technology whiz, but I've learned a number of things down the road and consider myself somewhat adept at using a Mac. Sometimes the problem is rather daunting and I'm happy that I've found Macosx.com and it's free-tech-support-answer website... hope that whoever answers my question will be able to solve this problem.
Many thanks!
Marco
Response(s)
On Sep 9, 10:40pm Carolyn S. wrote:
Hello Marco,
<>
I think you solved our own problem. If you are only down to 6.75gb's... you are short on hard drive space! Can you move some of your files to one or both of your external drives??? Since you do graphics design and have music files, they both take up major drive space.
Also, are you running Disk Utility at least once a week??? If not, go to your MacintoshHD>Applicaitions>Utilities. In the Utilities folder is Disk Utility.
Double click on that and run Repair Permissions. This can solve a lot of problems. Also, go to www.versiontracker.com and get OnyX It's a FREEware utility that runs maintenance and cleans logs and caches and it does a superb job. Easy to download and install... I run it a minimum of once a week and recommend it to people who post here with good feedback.
Now since you are running 9.2.2, you might try turning off Extensions that you aren't using in the Extension Manager. That can help your eMac run faster and smoother.
Try the suggestions I've made and please post back to let me know how it's going!
Carolyn :-)
On Sep 11, 10:01pm Marco wrote:
Carolyn,
Many thanks for your kind reply to my Mac-query... your advice was great and so far I've been able to implement some of your suggestions.
Positives:
a) I've increased my eMac hard drive space from 6.75 to 7.93 gigabytes.
b) I've been able to download a copy of OnyX utility, albeit version 1.5.2 as I am running OSX 10.3.
c) I've run Diskwarrior on all my hard drives.
d) I've repaired permissions on Disk Utility.
Negatives:
1) Although I've increased my HD space as shown, my system still seems slower than 6 months ago. I'm wondering if I've somehow, somewhere or another been snagged by spyware (I've been very careful surfing the 'net, although I know these days anyone is fair game for spyware, PC or Mac user alike).
2) OnyX seems a formidable program, unfortunately there aren't any instructions in English. It appears that the creators of OnyX are based in France, causing a number of people problems in knowing how to best set the program's parameters and preferences, ultimately damaging or erasing their data. This is somewhat of a conundrum... I feel it's dangerous to try and run the program on my computer and inadvertently delete a file (or files) the computer needs to operate on. (There are some complaints about this on "versiontracker.com".)
3) Diskwarrior has been my ever faithful standby utility, but as I've said before... it will not defrag a hard drive.
4) TechTools Pro 4 seems great, but I've now read reviews by individuals who have used the software to disastrous results. (Sigh)
Additional computer system information I left out on my last e-mail:
i) Much of the hard drive space on my eMac is being used by necessary Apple and second party software/plug-ins, and I'm not exactly sure if deleting some of these programs will cause my eMac to freeze-up or work incorrectly.
ii) Most, if not all of my graphics, music, and business applications are on my large and backup hard drives (160 Gb LaCie and 80 Gb LaCie respectively). My 16 Gigabytes worth of iTune songs are there (on my large HD), and even then, they are converted to MP3's to conserve space.
iii) I've been having some problems with my computer for the last 8 or 9 months, mostly with a jittery screen (jiggles slightly from side to side and shimmers at the bottom when an application is on). Since I have a service agreement, I've had the company where I purchased it at replace the video board (according to their tech support assumptions of the symptoms). Could the logic board actually be the culprit of my computer's problems? They replaced the video board but my screen is still exhibiting the same symptoms, so I'm thinking it might be something else like the logic board.
iv) My eMac and peripherals are connected to an APC 350 backup battery system that I purchased in 2003 as well. Could the backup battery now be old, causing damage to my eMac, and need replacing?
Like I mentioned before, I'm not an Information Technology expert, but I have learned much in the 10 years I've been using Macs, enough to get me around the tough spots. This problem, on the other hand, is out of my league and is frustrating.
My apologies for this late addition of information and questions... the night I e-mailed you, I was somewhat occupied with an ongoing family crisis and being a disabled individual just made everything that much more intense and time consuming where I omitted the above information. I do hope that I'm not overburdening you with this new message and request.
Sincerely,
Marco
***************************************************************
I've tried to include as much information as possible to help you, the tech-support, better diagnose the problem. Should you need more information, feel free to include any questions of your own that I can answer back in a reply.
Many, many thanks!
Marco
baldprof - Sep 13, 2005 - 12:54 pm
Disk utilities which are designed to run under 9.2.x don't always play very nice with OS X. I advise against using those. Here's the official Apple position on disk defragmentation when running OS X:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668
As far as other utilties are concerned the most recent version of Tech Tool Pro is great for what it does; but as you know it doesn't defrag. Disk Warrior is also great, but it is single purpose, and does defrag. I wouldn't worry about that.
I think it is more likely that you are simply running out of space on your boot drive. Because of the way OS X uses virtual memory, when your free space on your hard drive (boot) drops below 25%, your system will slow down. So if you have less than 25% free space on the partion which boots OS X, a slowdown is inevitable.
My advice: put a larger hard drive in your Mac to use as a boot drive. That's the only remedy I can thing of.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668
As far as other utilties are concerned the most recent version of Tech Tool Pro is great for what it does; but as you know it doesn't defrag. Disk Warrior is also great, but it is single purpose, and does defrag. I wouldn't worry about that.
I think it is more likely that you are simply running out of space on your boot drive. Because of the way OS X uses virtual memory, when your free space on your hard drive (boot) drops below 25%, your system will slow down. So if you have less than 25% free space on the partion which boots OS X, a slowdown is inevitable.
My advice: put a larger hard drive in your Mac to use as a boot drive. That's the only remedy I can thing of.
cloudysky1 - Sep 13, 2005 - 5:27 pm
Dear Michael,
Thank you for your expeditious reply to my query.
> On Sep 13, 8:54am Michael B. wrote:
> Disk utilities which are designed to run under 9.2.x don't always play very > nice with OS X. I advise against using those. Here's the official Apple
> position on disk defragmentation when running OS X:
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668
Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, it appears that the eMac model that I purchased may have had inadvertant issues that create problems that I (and assuredly others) am having. Unfortunately, the above Apple page does not address the problem(s) that I am having with an eMac that uses both OS version platforms, so it is somewhat useless to me, other than giving me more OS X knowledge that I can use at a future date.
> (Michael)
> As far as other utilties are concerned the most recent version of Tech Tool
> Pro is great for what it does; but as you know it doesn't defrag. Disk
> Warrior is also great, but it is single purpose, and does defrag. I wouldn't
> worry about that.
I beg to differ about the above comments. Micromat, Inc.'s website states that TechTool Pro 4 "unfragments" a problem hard drive, where as DiskWarrior "optimizes" a hard drive. If I'm not mistaken, those 2 terms aren't exactly the same.
The reason that I do worry about the issue of fragmentation is that Alsoft's Optimizer/Plus software diagnosed that I had moderate fragmentation while running it on OS 9.2.2. Additionally, Macosx.com's previous tech support (Carolyn) told me to use OnyX utilities to optimize my hard drive to prevent any future problems. Should I disregard her comments?
> (Michael)
> I think it is more likely that you are simply running out of space on your
> boot drive. Because of the way OS X uses virtual memory, when your free
> space on your hard drive (boot) drops below 25%, your system will slow
> down. So if you have less than 25% free space on the partion which boots
> OS X, a slowdown is inevitable.
This makes sense, but I am just a layperson and don't exactly understand your comment. Do you mean:
a) That the eMac hard drive is too full and that files (possibly 5 Gigabyte's worth) need to be transferred to another external hard drive to allow more space for swifter operation?
or;
b) That the partition which holds the "startup disk" information needs more space? If so, and in easy to understand terms, how do I free up space in this partition to alleviate the problem? Do I use DiskWarrior or Apple's Disk Repair utility to achieve this?
> (Michael)
> My advice: put a larger hard drive in your Mac to use as a boot drive. That's
> the only remedy I can thing of.
Unfortunately, this is not possible for me to do at this point in time. One big question for me is if this (possible) fragmentation problem could get worse or bad enough to damage my eMac's hard drive. Could you answer this for me?
Please forgive me for showing any lack of trust with Macosx.com's tech support solutions. My computer, as with many people, is very important in maintaining a richer quality of life for myself and my family. I am hesitant on doing anything that will complicate and/or worsen the problem with my computer. I understand that Macosx.com and it's tech support can only suggest a remedy for anyone's Mac or computer problems and that sometimes the answers to a problem may not be perfect. Nonetheless, I greatly appreciate the time and efforts that were taken to help me with my queries and hope to continue using this website for future information.
For the moment:
1) I will most likely continue using DiskWarrior at least once every 1-2 weeks to keep the system as happy as possible.
2) I will probably contact my service contract company and ask them if this problem I am experiencing falls under my contract agreement, possibly it does and I will perhaps be able to alleviate or eradicate the problem.
3) I will keep looking into 3rd party software utility programs and see if I find something that will work on my eMac's particular problem.
4) I'll contact Apple directly and see if they have any solution(s) that I can apply to my eMac issue. Perhaps they will direct me to someone who has more concrete answers.
Michael, many thanks for your kind help. Please feel free to e-mail me back if you find a remedy that we haven't touched upon that may help me with my problem.
Take care!
Marco
Thank you for your expeditious reply to my query.
> On Sep 13, 8:54am Michael B. wrote:
> Disk utilities which are designed to run under 9.2.x don't always play very > nice with OS X. I advise against using those. Here's the official Apple
> position on disk defragmentation when running OS X:
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668
Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, it appears that the eMac model that I purchased may have had inadvertant issues that create problems that I (and assuredly others) am having. Unfortunately, the above Apple page does not address the problem(s) that I am having with an eMac that uses both OS version platforms, so it is somewhat useless to me, other than giving me more OS X knowledge that I can use at a future date.
> (Michael)
> As far as other utilties are concerned the most recent version of Tech Tool
> Pro is great for what it does; but as you know it doesn't defrag. Disk
> Warrior is also great, but it is single purpose, and does defrag. I wouldn't
> worry about that.
I beg to differ about the above comments. Micromat, Inc.'s website states that TechTool Pro 4 "unfragments" a problem hard drive, where as DiskWarrior "optimizes" a hard drive. If I'm not mistaken, those 2 terms aren't exactly the same.
The reason that I do worry about the issue of fragmentation is that Alsoft's Optimizer/Plus software diagnosed that I had moderate fragmentation while running it on OS 9.2.2. Additionally, Macosx.com's previous tech support (Carolyn) told me to use OnyX utilities to optimize my hard drive to prevent any future problems. Should I disregard her comments?
> (Michael)
> I think it is more likely that you are simply running out of space on your
> boot drive. Because of the way OS X uses virtual memory, when your free
> space on your hard drive (boot) drops below 25%, your system will slow
> down. So if you have less than 25% free space on the partion which boots
> OS X, a slowdown is inevitable.
This makes sense, but I am just a layperson and don't exactly understand your comment. Do you mean:
a) That the eMac hard drive is too full and that files (possibly 5 Gigabyte's worth) need to be transferred to another external hard drive to allow more space for swifter operation?
or;
b) That the partition which holds the "startup disk" information needs more space? If so, and in easy to understand terms, how do I free up space in this partition to alleviate the problem? Do I use DiskWarrior or Apple's Disk Repair utility to achieve this?
> (Michael)
> My advice: put a larger hard drive in your Mac to use as a boot drive. That's
> the only remedy I can thing of.
Unfortunately, this is not possible for me to do at this point in time. One big question for me is if this (possible) fragmentation problem could get worse or bad enough to damage my eMac's hard drive. Could you answer this for me?
Please forgive me for showing any lack of trust with Macosx.com's tech support solutions. My computer, as with many people, is very important in maintaining a richer quality of life for myself and my family. I am hesitant on doing anything that will complicate and/or worsen the problem with my computer. I understand that Macosx.com and it's tech support can only suggest a remedy for anyone's Mac or computer problems and that sometimes the answers to a problem may not be perfect. Nonetheless, I greatly appreciate the time and efforts that were taken to help me with my queries and hope to continue using this website for future information.
For the moment:
1) I will most likely continue using DiskWarrior at least once every 1-2 weeks to keep the system as happy as possible.
2) I will probably contact my service contract company and ask them if this problem I am experiencing falls under my contract agreement, possibly it does and I will perhaps be able to alleviate or eradicate the problem.
3) I will keep looking into 3rd party software utility programs and see if I find something that will work on my eMac's particular problem.
4) I'll contact Apple directly and see if they have any solution(s) that I can apply to my eMac issue. Perhaps they will direct me to someone who has more concrete answers.
Michael, many thanks for your kind help. Please feel free to e-mail me back if you find a remedy that we haven't touched upon that may help me with my problem.
Take care!
Marco
baldprof - Sep 13, 2005 - 5:48 pm
I am going to put this back in the open pool. I do not share your opinions of some of those disk utilities, and I haven't worked with OS 9 in over three years. Perhaps someone else can help you.
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