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TICKET ARCHIVE -> B&W G3 doesn't see mouse post upgrade

xgipper - May 3, 2007 - 8:29 am

Hi
Have a B&W G3 tower running Tiger; it was upgraded to the latest version of OSX using the auto update facility. It has an ADB keyboard and mouse connected. On re-boot it didn't recognise the mouse. The ADB keyboard it does recognise as you can 'tab' between folders on the desktop.
Tried it with a USB keyboard and mouse: neither worked. Tried it with a USB mouse plugged straight into back of Mac: nothing.
There is a CD in the drive so can't eject that, and even if I could I couldn't re-boot from a Tiger DVD as I believe it only has a CD Rom drive.
Yikes: any ideas?
Cheers

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 10:55 am

in fact it could have been upgrading Quicktime to the latest version that created this change, rather than a system upgrade - if that makes any difference.

I have also tried removing the power cord from the mac for a couple of minutes, and then re-booting. The problem remains.

Thanks

Natobasso - May 4, 2007 - 12:54 pm

More than likely Tiger does not have ADB support since it's such an 'old' protocol/connection device.

For your USB mice, though, just find the drivers online and download and install them and you should be fine.

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 1:20 pm

Thanks for your response.
Tiger supported ADB on this mac before this upgrade, which I'm now told was to upgrade Quicktime, iTunes, and "possibly a system security upgrade": we're not sure. But unclear how I can find, download and install things online without mouse control? How specifically can I do that?
Isn't mouse control built in to the system anyway? What drivers would I search for?

Natobasso - May 4, 2007 - 1:27 pm

Oops. Guess I should have done my research!

Give me the brand/models of your mice and I can direct you to the driver pages.

Tiger updates come out so quickly that some developers don't come out with drivers right away. Tiger does come with many more popular mouse and printer ppds installed, though.

As far as working without a mouse, you can use arrow keys to get into your hard drive, then open a web browser and then you'll be able to use the tab key to type urls. Command + Tab to scroll through apps. Use Command + O to open the hard drive and the browser app you choose.

If you have the mouse your computer came with that would work too.

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 2:07 pm

Thanks for your response.
Tiger supported ADB on this mac before this upgrade, which I'm now told was to upgrade Quicktime, iTunes, and "possibly a system security upgrade": we're not sure. But unclear how I can find, download and install things online without mouse control? How specifically can I do that?
Isn't mouse control built in to the system anyway? What drivers would I search for?

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 2:13 pm

Thanks

All kit is apple. Bought G3 with ADB keyboard and mouse that's worked fine till now. Also have other usb apple keyboards and mice.

I am able to open apps, but unclear how to move about within them: for example tried to use disc utility, which is fine, but couldn't figure out how to press buttons 'verify' 'repair' etc. Likewise within a browser, if I could find what to download, how would I be able to get to, and then 'click' on the relevant link?

Cheers

Natobasso - May 4, 2007 - 2:41 pm

use the tab key to navigate to links and or buttons. I just can't figure out how to 'select' an item in the Disk Utility.

An easier way to repair permissions is to restart and hold command + s down till you see the black screen with white text. Then, type fsck -f and wait till the operation stops. Then type reboot to restart your computer.

I'd seriously recommend borrowing a mouse; it will make this a lot easier. I'll try to figure out how to select a link in a browser or a button in an app without the mouse...

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 2:46 pm

Thanks

All kit is apple. Bought G3 with ADB keyboard and mouse that's worked fine till now. Also have other usb apple keyboards and mice.

I am able to open apps, but unclear how to move about within them: for example tried to use disc utility, which is fine, but couldn't figure out how to press buttons 'verify' 'repair' etc. Likewise within a browser, if I could find what to download, how would I be able to get to, and then 'click' on the relevant link?

Cheers

Natobasso - May 4, 2007 - 4:58 pm

You can navigate with the tab key to buttons and/or links. However, I haven't figured out how to use the keyboard to 'open' buttons; especially in the finder.

Can you just use your stock apple usb mouse to get back your mouse functionality?

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 5:15 pm

No - it didn't work when I plugged in an apple usb keyboard with an apple mouse plugged in to that.

Natobasso - May 4, 2007 - 5:41 pm

And you've repaired permissions on the machine?

Did you reboot in Safe Mode as I instructed in an earlier post? (See command + s on reboot)

The last fix available to you is to reinstall OS X on your machine. If you can't get the mouse to work to eject that disc, find the little paper clip-sized hole and genly push a straightened one in there to make the tray pop out. If you don't immediately feel a metal lip inside that hole then go no farther.

xgipper - May 4, 2007 - 6:14 pm

No - it didn't work when I plugged in an apple usb keyboard with an apple mouse plugged in to that.

xgipper - May 5, 2007 - 6:52 am

Hi
These tickets seem to be out of sequence, so I didn't see yours about + s etc. Have now done this and re-booted. Still can't move ADB mouse, but ADB keyboard OK. Nothing from USB mouse or keyboard. Currently trying to work out exactly how to force out CD from drive, to try to boot into an OS9 startup disk - not sure what I'll do when I get there, tho. The only other option is, as yu say, to reinstall system - but would have to somehow do it over network to a DVD drive on another mac - no doubt there will be issues there without mouse control. But is that, in theory, possible?

xgipper - May 5, 2007 - 2:44 pm

Hi
These tickets seem to be out of sequence, so I didn't see yours about + s etc. Have now done this and re-booted. Still can't move ADB mouse, but ADB keyboard OK. Nothing from USB mouse or keyboard. Currently trying to work out exactly how to force out CD from drive, to try to boot into an OS9 startup disk - not sure what I'll do when I get there, tho. The only other option is, as yu say, to reinstall system - but would have to somehow do it over network to a DVD drive on another mac - no doubt there will be issues there without mouse control. But is that, in theory, possible?

xgipper - May 5, 2007 - 2:52 pm

Since then I have considered booting the G3 B&W in target mode, with my G4, which has a DVD rom drive, as the host. But I have read you cant' boot a G3 in target mode. Wondering why that is, as mine had an IDE drive put in: maybe that would make a difference. If I could do that, then I could re-install the system, or reinstall the MacOSXUpdCombo10.4.9PPC, which a friend suggested I attempt. Would there be any risk of harm booting into target mode if it fails?

I did try reinstalling the MacOSXUpdCombo10.4.9PPC, burning it first to CD, but was unable to 'continue' the installatin process without a mouse. Crazy: the continue button doesn't work from the keyboard.

So, as I understand it the G3 B&W also won't boot from an external firewire HD (which I have); will it, I'm wondering , boot from an external DVD drive? If so maybe I could borrow one to reinstall the system. Or the only other thing I can think of is replacing its internal CD reader with a DVD reader/writer (would any one do??). Then, maybe, I could boot from my Tiger install disc.

But running out of options, really. Any more thoughts?

thanks.

Natobasso - May 5, 2007 - 6:32 pm

Target mode is perfectly safe. Try it on the G3 though if it didn't come with firewire built in that's why Target mode won't work.

Have you tried using an ethernet cable to connect your two computers? Then you could reinstall os x on the G3 B&W from your G4. Just don't go all the way up to Tiger if you can help it, just load 10.3 on the G3 machine. Tiger is a memory hog and requires at least 256MB RAM to funciton.

Try not to use the combo updaters either. Use your mac's built in updater to update from your original install in steps.

xgipper - May 7, 2007 - 9:51 am

I have read that Target mode doesn't work on the B&W G3 although firewire is built in.

The G3 is on a network with my G4 but my G4 can't see it. I can't seem to share the hard drive without a mouse to adjust stuff. Neither can I seem to turn on Mouse Keys using universal access without a mouse (surely there is a way??). Neither can I boot into Classic without a mouse, or Mouse Keys. I have been able to boot into 9.04 on a G4's start up disc (and the mouse worked fine), but no use as no 'file sharing' control panel. It did have 'start up disc' options, including 'network drive' but it couldn't seem to find my Tiger DVD, in the drive of the G4 on the network: should it? I have tried making various other CDs with versions of OS9 on with sharing control panels, but they won't boot so I must be doing that wrong.


The update that seemed to cause this problem was from the built in updater. A friend suggested the combo thing might solve it if I try to install it - but nowhere near being able to do that.

Natobasso - May 7, 2007 - 10:37 am

Insert your Tiger install DVD into the G4 that has the functioning mouse. Don't reinstall Tiger on the G4 machine.

Then, see if your G3 on the network shows up as a drive you can install OS X onto. If not, you may want to consider taking your mac into an apple store or certified retail for repair work.

The answer to your issues is to reinstall Tiger and then do the updates through the System Preferences/Software Update, not through a Combo or other updater. Without the drive working on the G3 and no mouse, that's going to be a very tough ask.

xgipper - May 7, 2007 - 10:54 am

No can't see G3 on network; hence need to load a system (ie OS9 perhaps) that enables me to adjust file sharing options on that G3, so I can then install stuff over network.

Agree answer to reinstall Tiger. I may then go back to earlier plan - remove hard drive, put it in G4 and see if I can do it from there.

Natobasso - May 7, 2007 - 11:02 am

I think that second option might just work. Let me know.

xgipper - May 7, 2007 - 11:16 am

No can't see G3 on network; hence need to load a system (ie OS9 perhaps) that enables me to adjust file sharing options on that G3, so I can then install stuff over network.

Agree answer to reinstall Tiger. I may then go back to earlier plan - remove hard drive, put it in G4 and see if I can do it from there.

Natobasso - May 9, 2007 - 12:55 pm

Let me know what happens.