Ticket Options

Question Profile

Question Details

TICKET ARCHIVE -> Coping old apps. to my new xternal HD

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 1:58 pm

I'm having problems with my internal HD on my MAC G4. I bought an external HD and I want to run my OS off it and transfer everything to it. Problem is, I don't have some install disks. Is there a way to do this. Transfer programs to the HD and be able to run them from there? Or do I have other options, like cloning my internal to the new HD, and if I can, will the problems I'm having on it, transfer to the HD? Need Help Bad!


Thanks!

earthsaver - Jan 3, 2008 - 2:26 pm

If the problems are software-based, they may get transferred to the new disk. Fix them first by starting with a Safe Boot or in Single User Mode by following Apple's instructions. If they are hardware problems and your hard disk is dying, cloning to the external is your immediate next step. You can use Carbon Copy Cloner to handle this process simply. Then you can replace your internal hard disk and clone back, not having lost anything.

- Ben

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 8:15 pm

Thanks Ben sounds like a good start. I want to Clone my old hardrive, but I noticed I have some folders and links that don't look familiar inside. So before I Clone I want to know what they are and can I get ride of them without hurting anything? I want to take a screen shot, but how can I send it? Some look like a file that reads (mach.sym) others look like a network icon with a little black arrow for a link on it. Same with folders, little black arrow and say (var), (tmp), (etc). What are these, should I worry about them?
Thanks Ben, you've been a big help.
Thomas

earthsaver - Jan 3, 2008 - 8:36 pm

Don't touch those files, Thomas. They're supposed to be invisible but for whatever reason they're not right now. One other thing worth doing before you clone is to repair disk permissions, one of the First Aid options in Disk Utility.

So, without touching anything else, just clone everything. Otherwise, the new drive won't start up properly.

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 9:34 pm

Ok I won't, but how do I hide them again? Do I have to use the terminal? And I repaired disk permission, now I'm going to start cloning.

earthsaver - Jan 3, 2008 - 9:46 pm

Need to know what version of Mac OS X you're running to answer that question. (Not listed in your profile.) After you clone and startup, they might hide themselves. Otherwise, we'll ask Apple for support.

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 9:56 pm

OS 10.3.2

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 9:56 pm

OS 10.3.9

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 9:57 pm

the last one, sorry

thomasdavis - Jan 3, 2008 - 10:04 pm

the last one, sorry

earthsaver - Jan 3, 2008 - 10:32 pm

After you clone, you might want to try downloading and reinstalling the 10.3.9 combo update.

thomasdavis - Jan 5, 2008 - 9:02 am

Hey guys, I finished cloning to my new hardrive, and I went to install the update but it won't launch. I''l keep trying. Also I need to get a new internal drive, any suggestions on what and where?
Thanks.

earthsaver - Jan 5, 2008 - 9:38 am

Are you now booted from the external drive?

Among ATA/IDE drives that would fit your Power Mac, I recommend those sold by Other World Computing, except the 80GB Western Digital disk listed. Also, you're going to want the Intech Hi-Capacity solution listed at the top to allow your computer to support disks larger than 128GB.

thomasdavis - Jan 5, 2008 - 11:13 am

No, should I be? If yes, how? And I'll look into the drives.
Thanks, you guys are like my new best friends.
LIFESAVERS!

earthsaver - Jan 5, 2008 - 12:07 pm

Yeah, the whole point is that you're having trouble with your internal hard disk and need to be operating from your external until you replace the internal and clone back to it. To do so, go to the Startup Disk pane of System Preferences and select the System folder on your external drive, which hopefully has a different icon and name than your internal drive, and Restart.

If that doesn't work, you can hold Option on restart and select the external drive from the startup disk selection screen that appears. Be patient while the system searches for System folders; it may take 30 seconds or so before you can select and go.

P.S. I guess you're referring to all the techs at macosx.com as "you guys," but much as I may seem like multiple people to some people I know, and as super hero is among my known titles at the place where I work full time, I'm only one person helping you through this right now. I appreciate the feedback and you can pass yours on to the rest of the site after we close your question.

thomasdavis - Jan 6, 2008 - 10:49 am

Ok, I selected the external and restarted. How can I tell if I'm running off the external? since I started having problems some of my MAC applications haven't been launching, dictionary, Safari, and I thought once I upgraded the problem would fix itself. Also, I still see the "invisible" files. Once I figure out that I'm running off of my external, what do I do with the internal?

Thanks Ben

earthsaver - Jan 6, 2008 - 11:09 am

If you're booted off the external, you'll see it selected in Startup Disk preferences and, if you have your disks shown on the Desktop, the external should be the first one displayed (upper right). It should also appear at the top of the list in Disk Utility, which is the next place you want to go. When booted externally, you can now try to repair the internal disk. (I don't think you referenced following the single user mode instructions earlier.)

You're still having problems opening some applications? Then, the hard disk wasn't causing those problems necessarily. But let's start with the repair and you can let me know if Disk Utility fixes anything.

thomasdavis - Jan 6, 2008 - 12:21 pm

Ok, I admit I might of jumped the gun by cloning everything over, but before I contacted you I put in the install disk held down C and went to disk utility and tried to repair the hardrive. It showed me an error saying something with the volume couldn't be repaired. I assumed it was the hardrive and I needed a new one so I archived and installed. And thats when I contacted you. So, so far I cloned my internal to my external, tried to start up on my external which I can't seem to do, when I try to select the external it asks me, am I sure I want to restart using my external and I hit the restart button and it just spins. I'm sure you get this all the time, people think they know what there doing and in the end it makes things worse. I'm trying and I'm learning as we go. I also tried to use the start up disk again to see if I could try and repair the internal or see if I can get that message again and I can't also tried to start up using the single use mode and can't. So now you know what I've done and where I'm at. Still on board?
Thanks.

earthsaver - Jan 6, 2008 - 11:10 pm

I guess I misinterpreted when you said "I don't have some install disks" to mean you couldn't run Disk Utility off the install disc and would have to resort to single user mode or an external startup disk. Thanks, though, for the more complete background on your scenario.

If you got a volume cannot be repaired with Disk Utility error, it's possible it can be repaired with [url=http://www.alsoft.com/]DiskWarrior/url]. However, it's also possible that the hard disk is truly dying. So, since you have the main install disc after all, I recommend using it to check the condition of your external disk. If it turns out to have the same error, than it's likely a directory structure problem that DiskWarrior can fix and not a hardware failure in the internal disk at all.

So, where do you go from here? Run Verify/Repair Disk on the external first. Did you try holding Option on restart to get to the startup disk selector? It might be worth a try as Startup Disk preferences doesn't always work.

Outside of those, you might need to buy or otherwise get your hands on a copy of DiskWarrior, because if you're just transferring a directory structure error from one disk to the next, you're not getting any healthier.

thomasdavis - Jan 7, 2008 - 11:33 am

I verified my external and it checked ok. Then I verified my internal so I could get the error message and it read, invalid leaf record count, 1 volume needs repair, (it should be 7, instead of 152). I tried from the start up disk, to launch from external and go to restart. After restart, it takes me back to the install window and I can't eject the disk. Did that a few times and finally went back to the launch from the internal, restarted and was able to eject the disk. Tried restarting and holding option and I don't get the start up disk window. I'm looking into the Disk Warriors now. Will this fix the leaf record count, and what about the internal? Do you think its dying?

earthsaver - Jan 7, 2008 - 11:50 am

DiskWarrior should fix the leaf record count if Disk Utility can't.

You might want to try manually blessing your external drive to make it boot properly. In Terminal, enter the following command, replacing HDNAME with the name or the hard disk:

bless --folder "/Volumes/HDNAME/System/Library/CoreServices"

Then, select it as the startup disk again.

thomasdavis - Jan 8, 2008 - 12:25 pm

I'm waiting to get paid, hopefully today, so I can but Disk Warrior. I tried to type in the terminal and it tells me, Unrecognized argument: "--folder", then a lot more stuff.

earthsaver - Jan 8, 2008 - 2:56 pm

Try only one hyphen instead of two: "bless -folder ..."

Also, if it doesn't work because you don't have permission, then you have to start the command with sudo to use the super user. Use "sudo bless -folder ..."

thomasdavis - Jan 8, 2008 - 8:31 pm

I tried only one hyphen, and its says, Not run as root.

So then I tried the sudo, then it tells me, Warning: Improper use of the sudo command could lead to data loss or deletion of important system files. PLeas double check spelling. Type "man sudo" for more information. To proceed, enter password, or type CTRL-C to abort.

earthsaver - Jan 8, 2008 - 9:40 pm

I remember that I got sidetracked and forgot to mention that you'd have to enter your password to make the command work. You're not hurting anything by trying to bless a System folder, so no worries here.

thomasdavis - Jan 10, 2008 - 10:35 am

Ok, I tried that and got this warning,
No mount point for Volumes/Mine/System/Library/CoreSevices

When I bought my external I reformatted it to MAC OS Extended (Journaled). Does that matter? I also renamed it "Mine". Before it was "My Book".

earthsaver - Jan 10, 2008 - 3:18 pm

I'm hoping you only retyped and misspelled CoreServices in your reply and that you remembered quotes around the path and a slash at the beginning of it. If that's all true, can you confirm that your hard disk is mounted? Does it appear on the Desktop/Sidebar or in Disk Utility?

We've been at this for nearly a week and I'm nearing the point when I'd like to see this for myself. If you agree, we can set up a time to share your screen. Email me if you want to go this route.

thomasdavis - Jan 10, 2008 - 7:16 pm

I agree. And yes, the external is mounted and yes it shows up on the desktop as well as in the sidebar. I'm available for the next few hours or if tomorrow is better pick a time and I can here. I'll check back shortly.

thomasdavis - Jan 11, 2008 - 8:35 pm

I tried to use your email link but once I select it nothing happens. You can call if you like and we can set up a time or email me here.
413 212 0713
tdavis@hilltowncreative.com

earthsaver - Jan 12, 2008 - 12:10 am

Sorry, I haven't had much time to do this the last couple days. Busy weekend, too, so I hope you don't mind waiting until Monday; between 3 and 5 pm EST or after 9 pm are best for me. I"m going to email you with instructions to start our session.

thomasdavis - Jan 12, 2008 - 12:54 pm

After 9 would be best.
Thanks Ben.

thomasdavis - Jan 14, 2008 - 6:49 pm

I haven't heard anything, is tonight still goo for you?

earthsaver - Jan 14, 2008 - 7:30 pm

Yep. I'll be ready in a few hours.

thomasdavis - Jan 14, 2008 - 8:35 pm

Whats your best guess on how long it's going to take?

thomasdavis - Jan 17, 2008 - 2:27 pm

I haven't had time to erase and install. I hope this weekend. Thanks for your patients.

thomasdavis - Jan 20, 2008 - 10:21 am

After I erase and install on my internal, how do I get my old stuff that I cloned to my external back to my internal hardrive?

earthsaver - Jan 20, 2008 - 10:29 am

You could start by trying to use the Migration Assistant. (I think it was an available app in Panther, either in Utilities or /System/CoreServices.) Since the external has an OS X System folder, MA might be willing to do the job. Otherwise, it's going to take some time, but I think the safest way is to copy it there manually, one chunk at a time: non-installed applications, third-party root Library items, folders in your Home folder.

thomasdavis - Jan 20, 2008 - 9:13 pm

Ok, I did it. I erased and reinstalled OS 10.3.9. I tried the Migration Assistant, but I didn't open, so I guess the next step would be to manually copy over, right? How do I get started? Could you walk me thru one? And I think from there I could manage the rest.

Thanks.

earthsaver - Jan 20, 2008 - 10:58 pm

Before you start copying, I suggest repairing permissions.

So, Let's start with your Home folder. I would simply drag the full contents (or several subfolders at a time) of each main folder in your old user folder (whatever your username was there) into the equivalent folder in your new Home.

Then tackle applications. Bring over the ones that aren't already installed. Then, I'd open two Finder windows and seek differences in the subfolder contents of the root Library folder. Finally, do you have any extraneous files sitting beside Applications, Library, System, and Users that you need and can refile in a more appropriate place perhaps.

thomasdavis - Jan 21, 2008 - 1:59 pm

I repaired permissions, and now I've started moving over subfolders and while doing so, I unhide the hidden folders. Do you remember the command to type so I can hide them again?

earthsaver - Jan 21, 2008 - 2:34 pm

What folders are unhidden now? What are you saying is causing them to appear?

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
Shows hidden files in the finder. Replace TRUE with FALSE to hide hidden files again.

thomasdavis - Jan 21, 2008 - 2:53 pm

The folders that a have a dot in front of the name. I did't say anything, it seemed right after I moved the Library folder over, they appeared.

I write the whole second paragraph in the terminal?

earthsaver - Jan 21, 2008 - 2:58 pm

No, that's just an explanation of the command.

thomasdavis - Jan 22, 2008 - 8:25 pm

So far so good. I've moved over everything, including my programs and they all seem to work.
Last question. What can I do to my previous system folder? I was running OS 10.4 before I achived and installed OS 10.3. Can I retrive that OS or is it too much trouble? With my previous problems, you have been a major help. I can't thank you enough. If there is someone I can let know, how much I appriciate your help, please let me know. Thanks again Ben

Thomas

earthsaver - Jan 22, 2008 - 11:29 pm

In some universe, I think the previous system folder is useful, but I've never come upon a simple way for it to exist in this world, except in the Trash. OS X is a relatively quick and simple installation anyway (compared to Windows, anyway), if one needs to reinstall or upgrade.

You'll have an opportunity to leave feedback once we close your question. Glad I could help!, Thomas. It's been fun.