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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Finder Column focus hops

RobinS - Dec 18, 2007 - 12:35 am

So I guess this may seem like a non-issue but......
I'm organizing hundreds of files in Column View in Finder and when I delete one the focus hops to the column to the left. Over and over. Is there any way of stopping this utterly senseless behaviour? Is there any logic at all to this? You're in one column.....why would you want to move anywhere else automatically? Does OS X really think it can read my mind? Is Steve Jobs telepathic?

Does 10.5 do the same thing?

DeltaMac - Dec 18, 2007 - 7:08 am

Hi Robin!
When you move a selected file (in column view) to the trash, the 'selection' reverts to the enclosing folder. This issue is not related to focus, per se. You will notice that trashing a file while in other views removes the selection (nothing is selected), and the focus doesn't change. There's just nothing selected in that window (the selected item is gone). The column view shows what is really happening.
I think the sense is that the Finder _doesn't_ try to read your mind. If the selected file is trashed, then the selection reverts to the enclosing folder. Not a change of focus at all.

Sounds like you are moving many files, all in one folder? Maybe you already know this tip, but here it is: You can select ranges of files by selecting the first, then Shift-click the last one, and all files within that list will be selected. Or hold your Command key, and click on files until you are done selecting. You can move (or move to trash) all selected files at once. That's a lot simpler than doing the same click-delete over and over on individual files.

RobinS - Dec 18, 2007 - 9:54 am

But you see that is just so stupid - reverting to the previous folder. Not one in a 50 times do I want that to happen. In Windows it just goes up or down in the same column. You're working in the column. Chances are you want to stay in the column. When you want to move out of the column you move out of the column. Just one more instance of Apple trying to think for their customers and it sucks. I honestly don't know how you have such patience with such a ludicrously designed OS. Not that there's anything better out there but you'd think they wouldn't make such obvious mistakes.

And yes, of course I know the Shift click thing and the command click for moving individual folders within a column that aren't together.

Sometimes I wonder the reason they don't fix these illogical glitches is that there might be some intellectual rights involved? Do you think that is the case? Or are they just so clueless they don't realize how 99% of the world thinks? Enquiring minds wish to know.

When I see how slow the typical computer user is on their system (whether Windows or Mac) it just boggles the mind. Most of that is because of poor software design. When keyboard shortcuts become second nature and the work just "flows", the computer becomes an extension of your brain. Before that its just a labourious tool that is sadly necessary.

So what about Leopard? Same behaviour?

DeltaMac - Dec 18, 2007 - 3:59 pm

Robin, I did not say that the selection reverts to the previous folder. I said that the selection reverts to the 'enclosing' folder. Big difference. there.

Anyway, if you move a selected file to the trash, then the selection is gone from that folder. How could the selection (logically) change to a different file in the same folder? The OS doesn't know what you want to do, so in column view, the selection goes to the enclosing folder (which was already selected in column view, but not in direct focus) What other behavior would seem more logical, in your opinion?

RobinS - Dec 18, 2007 - 6:52 pm

The focus should stay where you last were last, so if you delete the N file it goes to M or O (O would be more logical as you're probably working alphabetically through the column fixing things) - not hop backwards one column. My columns are pages long sometimes. If it reverts to the previous column I have to scroll down and find where I last was. Its completely retarded.

If Windows can do it why can't OS X?
Could something so seemingly simple be controlled by intellectual property rights I wonder? I wonder if Microsoft could patent a navigation technique?

Another retarded thing in OS X: when you are using the arrow keys (by far the fastest and most efficient way of column navigation in List View), you are using the up and down arrows to (logically) go up and down. The right arrow expands the column and the left arrow collapses it. But in OS X you have to be on the top item to collapse it by using the left arrow. In Windows you can be ANYWHERE in the column, and when you hit the left arrow the entire column collapses. It makes navigation effortless with one hand. Instead of using that cursed mouse, wasting time and hopping needlessly around. Apple designers need to take some finger dexterity lessons. Maybe they're all crippled so they're dependent on the mouse for all things. They probably type with the mouse. One click, one letter. Wouldn't surprise me.

If you use Opera you'll notice it uses the efficient Windows collapsing technique in its Manage Bookmarks area. Makes navigation a total dream.

If they fixed this a lot more people would use List View. Then if they fixed the column width limitation (to half the screen) in List View even more people would use it. It has a lot of benefits that would be useful sometimes if they got their act together. One wonders how many man hours it would take to fix what looks like simple problems. Probably surprisingly, horrificly huge!

Sorry for all the negative comments recently but its depressing when the more you dig, the worse it looks. But after a while you work around the software's deficiencies and live happily ever after. Oh wait....wrong story.

DeltaMac - Dec 18, 2007 - 9:18 pm

I expect we will disagree on this. When I am working with similar files and in the same folder - cleaning out duplicates and the like - I would use list view, and command click on the needed files, and then do what I need with that selected bunch. I'm usually done, so no need for a file that happens to be in the same folder to suddenly be selected when I don't need it to do that. Is that how Windows responds? Seems completely illogical to me.

RobinS - Dec 18, 2007 - 9:50 pm

Windows keeps you in the same place until you move away from that place. That's it. You're in control. The system doesn't decide to suddenly hop over a column because you deleted a file.

Anyway, I guess Leopard does the same?

DeltaMac - Dec 19, 2007 - 7:29 am

Leopard does the same - but (again), there's no hopping, Just reverting to the enclosing folder, which remains selected. If you don't want to notice that, then use list view.
I don't think I can use the phrase 'you're in control' when talking about much of anything about Windows.
One area that has greatly improved with Leopard is the Finder view options. There's no longer this nebulous "This Window only, or All Windows". You can choose the exact view that you want within those options, and set it so that same folder/window always is at that same view - something promised by OS X, but not very consistent until Leopard. And, of course, there's the 4th view option now, Cover Flow, which I can take or leave. A little too much visual fluff, even for me! You might find that you like it!
My favorite Leopard feature is Quick Look, using the Finder to preview a large variety of documents with one keystroke (well, two - select the file, and press the space bar, press space again to exit), No application is launched. I am not aware of anything like it in Windows....

RobinS - Dec 19, 2007 - 12:39 pm

Yes - Quick Look sounds exceptional. Brilliant move on Apple's part. I guess I'll wait until the next revision, probably coinciding with Macworld in a few weeks and get it.

In closing a ticket, is it better for me to do it or you?

RobinS - Dec 19, 2007 - 12:47 pm

I wonder when they're going to revise this website. The owner emailed me and said he was swamped with family stuff and didn't have time. With all the knowledge in the heads of the volunteers you'd think they could fix things quickly enough. Like this page: There should be 2 buttons below this box. The exisiting one (Submit Response) and another (Submit Response and Close Question/Ticket). If you close the ticket without thanking the helper, it seems kind of rude. Or can I type here and click the above and still have this message transmitted?

And the notifications: what a disastor. It says I have some - but I don't. When I do, its impossible to know which have been responed to as the read highlighted areas make no sense and are usually inaccurate. The email system works well except they shouldn't send an email telling you that they are "Waiting Patiently". And the confirmation email. We all get plenty of email already thankyou. "My Questions" should be on the top of the home page beside "Ask a Question"..kind of logical. Little things like that help functionality and flow of a website immensely.

DeltaMac - Dec 19, 2007 - 1:53 pm

I am just a participant at this website, and I have no control of the site itself. I'm not sure which other volunteers have access to maintenance of the site. There's a few annoying glitches right now, I know.
Either of us can close the thread. I will take the opportunity to do that - seems like you're ready...
Thanks - Dale