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TICKET ARCHIVE -> From 10.2.8 to 10.3; How? Help?
Tony Funches - Jun 9, 2005 - 11:53 am
Due to well deserved enmity for Win-Crash over the past 10 years, I opted to follow advice from friends & family ... got a MAC ... that I could AFFORD ...
I have a G3 (blue & white), 450 MHz w/ 4 X 128 RAM ...
I bought it used, with no software Cd's.
It has no OS 9 (classic) installed, but does have a CD R/W. I did obtain an authentic 10.3 Panther "Upgrade" disc, but it will not install using ANY means/option. including holding down "C" as a "restart" is initiated, or opening from the desktop icon for the CD.
The Main Hard Drive is hopelessly scrambled, and a fresh install is required to correct ALL KINDS of Libraries & hidden files ...
I will certainly volunteer to return the favor, as soon as I learn enough to actually be helpful. For now I am surely at the steepest part of the learning curve.
Please Help?
Thank You
I have a G3 (blue & white), 450 MHz w/ 4 X 128 RAM ...
I bought it used, with no software Cd's.
It has no OS 9 (classic) installed, but does have a CD R/W. I did obtain an authentic 10.3 Panther "Upgrade" disc, but it will not install using ANY means/option. including holding down "C" as a "restart" is initiated, or opening from the desktop icon for the CD.
The Main Hard Drive is hopelessly scrambled, and a fresh install is required to correct ALL KINDS of Libraries & hidden files ...
I will certainly volunteer to return the favor, as soon as I learn enough to actually be helpful. For now I am surely at the steepest part of the learning curve.
Please Help?
Thank You
Drumhum - Jun 9, 2005 - 1:32 pm
Hi Tony,
I'm Tom and I will try and assist you. thanks for using macosx.com.
This computer should run fine with Panther once its installed!
The question is clearly, "why wont this install disk work?"
Does the cd mount on the desktop ok and can you open it and look at its contents? I'm just wondering if you have a faulty CD.
If it mounts ok and is recognised by the computer, another way of starting up from this disk (which you will have to in order to install the os) is to open "startup disk" from the system preferences. With the CD in the drive, you should see it listed in the available system list. select the cd system and do a restart. you computer should boot from CD now.
If this doesn't help, tell me exactly what happens, including any error messages etc, and we'll take it from there. The more explicit you can be the better:-)
let me know how you get on.
regards
Tom
I'm Tom and I will try and assist you. thanks for using macosx.com.
This computer should run fine with Panther once its installed!
The question is clearly, "why wont this install disk work?"
Does the cd mount on the desktop ok and can you open it and look at its contents? I'm just wondering if you have a faulty CD.
If it mounts ok and is recognised by the computer, another way of starting up from this disk (which you will have to in order to install the os) is to open "startup disk" from the system preferences. With the CD in the drive, you should see it listed in the available system list. select the cd system and do a restart. you computer should boot from CD now.
If this doesn't help, tell me exactly what happens, including any error messages etc, and we'll take it from there. The more explicit you can be the better:-)
let me know how you get on.
regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 9, 2005 - 3:11 pm
Sir; I Thank You for such a rapid response!
I will follow your directions (shortly) and report back on the results ... in the interim;
Yes, the CD Icon does appear on the desktop, however, the machine takes a VERY long time to open the associated folder. As I do get them open, I go to the "Install OSX" and attempt to open it, however it just stops at that point & does nothing whatsoever ...
Having said all that, I'm now going to ATTEMPT to follow your advice using the "System Prefs - Startup Disk" option ...
I will follow your directions (shortly) and report back on the results ... in the interim;
Yes, the CD Icon does appear on the desktop, however, the machine takes a VERY long time to open the associated folder. As I do get them open, I go to the "Install OSX" and attempt to open it, however it just stops at that point & does nothing whatsoever ...
Having said all that, I'm now going to ATTEMPT to follow your advice using the "System Prefs - Startup Disk" option ...
Tony Funches - Jun 9, 2005 - 5:21 pm
None of the above has worked; again, even though the desktop shows the "CD Icon & CD name, opening the folder gives the usual menu of files & when I click to open "Install OSX 10.3", the CD LED lights up for several minutes & then ... nothing.
When I use "Sys Prefs" to establish the CD as the "Startup Disk", the same rtesult occurs, AND I lose some functions, notably the ability to drag & drop using the mouse ... strange ...
When I use "Sys Prefs" to establish the CD as the "Startup Disk", the same rtesult occurs, AND I lose some functions, notably the ability to drag & drop using the mouse ... strange ...
Drumhum - Jun 10, 2005 - 6:54 am
Tony,
Strange indeed!
It certainly sounds like some sort of disk read issue but the question is, is this due the CD or drive?
Can the computer read other cd's ok? If other CD's work fine I'd be suspicious that you have a faulty CD. Have a good look at the surface of the disk for tiny scratches or dirt. If dirty clean carefully with a damp cloth rubbing in a radial, centre to edge direction (ie not round and round!). It would be most useful to see the disk's behaviour on another machine if possible.
Is the cdr/w drive in this machine the original apple supplied device (I take it that it is the internal drive and not some attached firewire drive)? I'm just not sure if these computers shipped with cd burners. If the drive has been "added" by the previous owner I'm wondering if there is some sort of compatibility issue.
Apart from this CD issue does the computer show any other signs of problems?
If you have not performed any "house keeping" routines on this machine I feel it may be worth doing the following...
repair permissions.
open diskUtility in your applications->utility folder
select your system disk and click the "repair permission" button.
PRAM reset (AKA zapping the PRAM)
switch on the computer while holding down the "P", "R", "alt", and apple keys
keep these held down till you have heard two or three start-up chimes and then release.
Have a think and go at these suggestions and tell me how you get on.
Regards
Tom
Strange indeed!
It certainly sounds like some sort of disk read issue but the question is, is this due the CD or drive?
Can the computer read other cd's ok? If other CD's work fine I'd be suspicious that you have a faulty CD. Have a good look at the surface of the disk for tiny scratches or dirt. If dirty clean carefully with a damp cloth rubbing in a radial, centre to edge direction (ie not round and round!). It would be most useful to see the disk's behaviour on another machine if possible.
Is the cdr/w drive in this machine the original apple supplied device (I take it that it is the internal drive and not some attached firewire drive)? I'm just not sure if these computers shipped with cd burners. If the drive has been "added" by the previous owner I'm wondering if there is some sort of compatibility issue.
Apart from this CD issue does the computer show any other signs of problems?
If you have not performed any "house keeping" routines on this machine I feel it may be worth doing the following...
repair permissions.
open diskUtility in your applications->utility folder
select your system disk and click the "repair permission" button.
PRAM reset (AKA zapping the PRAM)
switch on the computer while holding down the "P", "R", "alt", and apple keys
keep these held down till you have heard two or three start-up chimes and then release.
Have a think and go at these suggestions and tell me how you get on.
Regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 10, 2005 - 12:28 pm
I have tried all but the last of your suggestions ... which I will do now & report back in a little while.
BTW; the original CD drive had no "write capability", so I replaced it w/ a Sony. The Sony has no prob burning OR reading any CD I put in the machine ... and it correctly read the 10.2 Apple CD that installed the current system (loaner from a friend, moved away). The 10.2.8 upgrade pkg was downloaded from Apple ...
Anyway, I'll be trying the PRAM option in a few minutes; wish me luck!
And THANK YOU for your help! I'll reciprocate ASAP ...
Tony Funches
BTW; the original CD drive had no "write capability", so I replaced it w/ a Sony. The Sony has no prob burning OR reading any CD I put in the machine ... and it correctly read the 10.2 Apple CD that installed the current system (loaner from a friend, moved away). The 10.2.8 upgrade pkg was downloaded from Apple ...
Anyway, I'll be trying the PRAM option in a few minutes; wish me luck!
And THANK YOU for your help! I'll reciprocate ASAP ...
Tony Funches
Tony Funches - Jun 10, 2005 - 1:36 pm
Hi Tom ... ok; here's what happened;
1. I (diligently) followed your instructions & made the room "silent" so I could hear the "chimes",
2. Shut Down the machine & let it "rest" a few minutes while I made some coffee,
3. Started Up while holding down P-R-Alt/Option-Apple; a tricky task; I have HUGE hands & it's still impossible to press the Power Button while holding down all 4 simultaneously ... so, just for the Official Record, I had "P-R-Alt" down, hit the power button & immediately nailed the Apple while keeping the 1st three depressed.
4. I was disappointed not to hear any "chimes" or other sound file, however, the Monitor did blink on & off continually while the CD LED blinked at an irregular rate, indicating that the machine was reading it.
5. Suspecting the machine & CD were talking to other, I released the 4 buttons and boot-up continued.
6. As the Desktop Display came up as usual, the CD was/is displayed as a desktop icon with the name "MAC OS X Install Disk 1", & the machine did not independently initiate any further activity on it's own.
7. I open the folder, and goto "Welcome To MAC OS X', then to "Install MAC OS X",
8. Upon selection of the latter file, the machine doesn't know what application/utility to use for opening/expanding the file,
9. As I manually select "Stuffit", I also note that "Disk Copy" utility is not an available option.
10. And, OF COURSE, "Stuffit" gives me the error code 10814, which is unadulterated gibberish to ME ...
So! There we are! I will admit that I am baffled ... but that's nothing new ... I have to regard it as an opportunity "To Learn" which is always fun, unless I'm trying to get overdue taxes done so I can Slay The IRS Demons living in my Credit Report ...
I may have to tote the sick Lil' Puppy to a local (private) Apple "authorized reseller", but that can quickly evaporate this & next months rent & food budget ...
Cheers & Thanks
Newbie Tony
1. I (diligently) followed your instructions & made the room "silent" so I could hear the "chimes",
2. Shut Down the machine & let it "rest" a few minutes while I made some coffee,
3. Started Up while holding down P-R-Alt/Option-Apple; a tricky task; I have HUGE hands & it's still impossible to press the Power Button while holding down all 4 simultaneously ... so, just for the Official Record, I had "P-R-Alt" down, hit the power button & immediately nailed the Apple while keeping the 1st three depressed.
4. I was disappointed not to hear any "chimes" or other sound file, however, the Monitor did blink on & off continually while the CD LED blinked at an irregular rate, indicating that the machine was reading it.
5. Suspecting the machine & CD were talking to other, I released the 4 buttons and boot-up continued.
6. As the Desktop Display came up as usual, the CD was/is displayed as a desktop icon with the name "MAC OS X Install Disk 1", & the machine did not independently initiate any further activity on it's own.
7. I open the folder, and goto "Welcome To MAC OS X', then to "Install MAC OS X",
8. Upon selection of the latter file, the machine doesn't know what application/utility to use for opening/expanding the file,
9. As I manually select "Stuffit", I also note that "Disk Copy" utility is not an available option.
10. And, OF COURSE, "Stuffit" gives me the error code 10814, which is unadulterated gibberish to ME ...
So! There we are! I will admit that I am baffled ... but that's nothing new ... I have to regard it as an opportunity "To Learn" which is always fun, unless I'm trying to get overdue taxes done so I can Slay The IRS Demons living in my Credit Report ...
I may have to tote the sick Lil' Puppy to a local (private) Apple "authorized reseller", but that can quickly evaporate this & next months rent & food budget ...
Cheers & Thanks
Newbie Tony
Drumhum - Jun 10, 2005 - 2:49 pm
Hi Tony,
what fun you must be having!
A bit of confusion here me thinks. The amusing key combination of P,R,apple and alt thing is to reset the parameter RAM. This is unrelated to any CD operation and whether there is a CD in the drive or not will not make a difference. What it does do is reset some memory on your computer that is kept "alive" by small battery. The memory stores stuff that your computer needs to know when it is switched on. This includes date and time info, where your boot drive is etc. Sometimes this memory gets corrupted and strange things start to happen. Often things still work apart from just one inexplicable-behaviour-thing and one never thinks it is due to a corrupted PRAM! A reset seems to cure a surprising amount of ills!
When you switch on the computer the first thing you should hear is the start-up chime (a nice musical chord) and then screen flickers and hard drives start to speed up etc. After the chime the computer will look to the PRAM to see what to do. When you hold down all those keys the computer will erase the contents of the PRAM and go through a more lengthy process of working out what to do next (so the boot up process may take a little longer). keep the keys held down and the computer will erase the PRAM again, Chime again and go through the same process. After hearing a few chimes you will know you have reset the PRAM and so you can release the keys and let the computer boot up with fresh PRAM contents.
So now you know:-)
I've just looked at my Panther CD and it seem to be the same as yours. Its called "Mac OS X Install Disc 1" when on the desktop. open it and I see the "Welcome to Mac OS X" folder. Open this and I see a white CD icon with a blue "X" labeled "Install Mac X". When I double click this icon I get a screen telling me to click the only "button" labeled "restart". Clicking this restarts my computer which then boots from the CD and I can start installation.
The fact that you cannot "run" the installer app "Install Mac X" suggests to me that maybe your disk is faulty. Is there any way you can try another disk (from one of your mac friends?)
Incidentally, if this disk of yours is a copy (ie CD-R) this may explain things! Often copies do not work unless they have been copied "correctly" (if you get my drift)
----New discovery---
have a look at this:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25793
Is this the answer?
I cross my fingers!
let me know how you get on
regards
Tom
what fun you must be having!
A bit of confusion here me thinks. The amusing key combination of P,R,apple and alt thing is to reset the parameter RAM. This is unrelated to any CD operation and whether there is a CD in the drive or not will not make a difference. What it does do is reset some memory on your computer that is kept "alive" by small battery. The memory stores stuff that your computer needs to know when it is switched on. This includes date and time info, where your boot drive is etc. Sometimes this memory gets corrupted and strange things start to happen. Often things still work apart from just one inexplicable-behaviour-thing and one never thinks it is due to a corrupted PRAM! A reset seems to cure a surprising amount of ills!
When you switch on the computer the first thing you should hear is the start-up chime (a nice musical chord) and then screen flickers and hard drives start to speed up etc. After the chime the computer will look to the PRAM to see what to do. When you hold down all those keys the computer will erase the contents of the PRAM and go through a more lengthy process of working out what to do next (so the boot up process may take a little longer). keep the keys held down and the computer will erase the PRAM again, Chime again and go through the same process. After hearing a few chimes you will know you have reset the PRAM and so you can release the keys and let the computer boot up with fresh PRAM contents.
So now you know:-)
I've just looked at my Panther CD and it seem to be the same as yours. Its called "Mac OS X Install Disc 1" when on the desktop. open it and I see the "Welcome to Mac OS X" folder. Open this and I see a white CD icon with a blue "X" labeled "Install Mac X". When I double click this icon I get a screen telling me to click the only "button" labeled "restart". Clicking this restarts my computer which then boots from the CD and I can start installation.
The fact that you cannot "run" the installer app "Install Mac X" suggests to me that maybe your disk is faulty. Is there any way you can try another disk (from one of your mac friends?)
Incidentally, if this disk of yours is a copy (ie CD-R) this may explain things! Often copies do not work unless they have been copied "correctly" (if you get my drift)
----New discovery---
have a look at this:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25793
Is this the answer?
I cross my fingers!
let me know how you get on
regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 11, 2005 - 12:26 am
Sir; you are a PRINCE! I'll study the link you provided & see what I can learn there ...
Per your explanation, I see a "similarity" in the PRAM being somewhat similar to the CMOS function in the DOS-based PCs (from which I have found (safe?) refuge ...)
Yah; I'm sure WE'LL figure out this particular bug ...
Are there any particular attributes the "test/replacement" hard drive MUST have in order to try loading it up? I have several laying around, and a couple may well be former Apple-Installed originals. I think you may be on to something by switching out the "Main" hard drive for another ... mebbe IF I have a suitable extra, we will learn quite a bit! In doing so, would I lose functionality of the programs/files I have on the Master & Slave hard drives? Bein' Creole, I'm kinda struck ironically with the "Master & Slave" bit ...
rsvp as your schedule allows & Thank You!
Right Now; it's Guinness Time ...
TF
Per your explanation, I see a "similarity" in the PRAM being somewhat similar to the CMOS function in the DOS-based PCs (from which I have found (safe?) refuge ...)
Yah; I'm sure WE'LL figure out this particular bug ...
Are there any particular attributes the "test/replacement" hard drive MUST have in order to try loading it up? I have several laying around, and a couple may well be former Apple-Installed originals. I think you may be on to something by switching out the "Main" hard drive for another ... mebbe IF I have a suitable extra, we will learn quite a bit! In doing so, would I lose functionality of the programs/files I have on the Master & Slave hard drives? Bein' Creole, I'm kinda struck ironically with the "Master & Slave" bit ...
rsvp as your schedule allows & Thank You!
Right Now; it's Guinness Time ...
TF
Tony Funches - Jun 15, 2005 - 7:58 pm
Hi Tom!
Obviously, I've been a bit busy ... summer is "busy season" for mechanics here in Vegas ...
I tried the advice in the link you posted & it didn't work. I ended up w/ a bright blue & dark grey screen, looking like the very ancient (80s) pre-graphics days which stated "CLAIM falied" (exact text) ... after which, I just typed "mac-boot" to get the system started up again ...
My NEXT attempt will be to switchout the "Main" hard drive, and load 10.3 onto another hard drive taking the place of the terminally ill unit I using at the moment ...
I'll post SUCCESS (optimistically) later this evening ...
Cheers!
Tony
Obviously, I've been a bit busy ... summer is "busy season" for mechanics here in Vegas ...
I tried the advice in the link you posted & it didn't work. I ended up w/ a bright blue & dark grey screen, looking like the very ancient (80s) pre-graphics days which stated "CLAIM falied" (exact text) ... after which, I just typed "mac-boot" to get the system started up again ...
My NEXT attempt will be to switchout the "Main" hard drive, and load 10.3 onto another hard drive taking the place of the terminally ill unit I using at the moment ...
I'll post SUCCESS (optimistically) later this evening ...
Cheers!
Tony
Drumhum - Jun 16, 2005 - 6:44 am
Tony,
I think there has been a bit of confusion here. I was NOT suggesting you try switching your hard drive for another.
I was suggesting you try a different mac OS instal CD. I am suspicious that your MacOS CD is faulty or damaged.
I cannot see how a defective hard disk could cause this problem, though perhaps in these cases we would be wise to not rule anything out! Even so I feel it most wise to try a different MacOS CD before you start pulling your computer to bits!
Regards
Tom
I think there has been a bit of confusion here. I was NOT suggesting you try switching your hard drive for another.
I was suggesting you try a different mac OS instal CD. I am suspicious that your MacOS CD is faulty or damaged.
I cannot see how a defective hard disk could cause this problem, though perhaps in these cases we would be wise to not rule anything out! Even so I feel it most wise to try a different MacOS CD before you start pulling your computer to bits!
Regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 16, 2005 - 12:03 pm
I acknowledge that clarification, and I have tried three different CDs already ... ALL yield the SAME result ...
btw, I did discover that iTunes had transferred 5.76 GB of my music library from the Slave drive to the MAIN drive. This had left just a few MB of disk capacity. I have transferred them back to where they had been stored previously and this has helped ... but I still can't install the CD or repair the Main Drive.
I don't really suspect the hardware; I only posit that the Main Drive is missing some very basic code or instructions ,,,
The guy I bought the machine from did the install under the mistaken notion that he is a genius, and did not accept input from me while doing the fresh 10.2 install, so I have idea what options he included or did not include other than the failure to install "Classic OS 9".
The Sony CD Drive worked fine for that & all other functions, so I am inclined to trust that portion of the system as being operational ...
Disk Doctor informs me of a "SERIOUS" flaw having to do with the B-Tree; "A Major error was found in the header node of the wrapper's catalog B-Tree. The last record count is incorrect." Disk Doctor skips checking for defective media as a result of this flaw. I would DEARLY love to "copy & paste" the report but I have not yet discover the means to do so; I'm sure it would provide valuable information ...
Speed Disk reveals equally serious fragmentation but cannot repair these flaws ...
I have repaired disk permissions & defragged the two other drives w/ no problems ...
Perhaps this info will help reveal what "Ghost Resides In This Machine" ...
And right now, I MUST get to work out in the garage; I work for me & $ = me fixing cars instead of software ...
Cheers!
Tony
btw, I did discover that iTunes had transferred 5.76 GB of my music library from the Slave drive to the MAIN drive. This had left just a few MB of disk capacity. I have transferred them back to where they had been stored previously and this has helped ... but I still can't install the CD or repair the Main Drive.
I don't really suspect the hardware; I only posit that the Main Drive is missing some very basic code or instructions ,,,
The guy I bought the machine from did the install under the mistaken notion that he is a genius, and did not accept input from me while doing the fresh 10.2 install, so I have idea what options he included or did not include other than the failure to install "Classic OS 9".
The Sony CD Drive worked fine for that & all other functions, so I am inclined to trust that portion of the system as being operational ...
Disk Doctor informs me of a "SERIOUS" flaw having to do with the B-Tree; "A Major error was found in the header node of the wrapper's catalog B-Tree. The last record count is incorrect." Disk Doctor skips checking for defective media as a result of this flaw. I would DEARLY love to "copy & paste" the report but I have not yet discover the means to do so; I'm sure it would provide valuable information ...
Speed Disk reveals equally serious fragmentation but cannot repair these flaws ...
I have repaired disk permissions & defragged the two other drives w/ no problems ...
Perhaps this info will help reveal what "Ghost Resides In This Machine" ...
And right now, I MUST get to work out in the garage; I work for me & $ = me fixing cars instead of software ...
Cheers!
Tony
Drumhum - Jun 17, 2005 - 6:18 am
Tony,
You should be able to boot from a Mac OS install disk no matter what state your hard disk is in. Even if your hard disk has completely failed, exploded, burnt to a crisp, you should be able to start up, ie boot from your mac os install CD. Booting from CD is the way one can rescue a defective hard disk.
The fact you cannot boot from CD is the main cause for concern.
You say you have tried three macos x install disks. I assume these are the proper apple supplied disks (ie not some CD-r copy).
I strongly suspect, from what you have told me, that your sony CD drive is causing problems. If you have the original mac CD drive I suggest you put it back in the computer and try booting from the CD from the apple CD drive.
When you install Mac OS X you have the option to erase your hard drive completely. You may wish to consider doing this to bring the computer to its "as new" state and to erase anything left by the previous owner.
If you don't have the original CD drive, or, after installing the original drive the computer will still not boot from the CD I suspect you will have no option but to take the machine to an authorized service centre.
May I also caution you in using Norton software. Macos X does not suffer from fragmentation like earlier versions (or Windows) and should really only be necessary under very heavy use conditions. I, personally don't have a lot of faith in Norton and feel it can cause more problems than it corrects! I use diskwarrior for repairing the files on my drive or Apple's DiskUtility. To use these packages you must be able to start up your computer from the CD, which brings us back to stage one!!
Just to make sure you are doing things correctly...
Insert the Mac OS X install CD, shut down the computer, hold down the "c" key and switch on the computer. Keep the 'c' key pressed until the computer has completely booted up. The desktop will look different, if booted up from CD. If things don't look different and the computer has booted up from the hard drive then either the CD is defective or the CD drive is defective. If you are sure the CD is good then it there must be a problem relating to the CD drive.
As I said before, if you have the original Apple CD-drive try that instead.
If you tell me the model of the Sony drive, I might be able to find useful info that can help.
Regards
Tom
You should be able to boot from a Mac OS install disk no matter what state your hard disk is in. Even if your hard disk has completely failed, exploded, burnt to a crisp, you should be able to start up, ie boot from your mac os install CD. Booting from CD is the way one can rescue a defective hard disk.
The fact you cannot boot from CD is the main cause for concern.
You say you have tried three macos x install disks. I assume these are the proper apple supplied disks (ie not some CD-r copy).
I strongly suspect, from what you have told me, that your sony CD drive is causing problems. If you have the original mac CD drive I suggest you put it back in the computer and try booting from the CD from the apple CD drive.
When you install Mac OS X you have the option to erase your hard drive completely. You may wish to consider doing this to bring the computer to its "as new" state and to erase anything left by the previous owner.
If you don't have the original CD drive, or, after installing the original drive the computer will still not boot from the CD I suspect you will have no option but to take the machine to an authorized service centre.
May I also caution you in using Norton software. Macos X does not suffer from fragmentation like earlier versions (or Windows) and should really only be necessary under very heavy use conditions. I, personally don't have a lot of faith in Norton and feel it can cause more problems than it corrects! I use diskwarrior for repairing the files on my drive or Apple's DiskUtility. To use these packages you must be able to start up your computer from the CD, which brings us back to stage one!!
Just to make sure you are doing things correctly...
Insert the Mac OS X install CD, shut down the computer, hold down the "c" key and switch on the computer. Keep the 'c' key pressed until the computer has completely booted up. The desktop will look different, if booted up from CD. If things don't look different and the computer has booted up from the hard drive then either the CD is defective or the CD drive is defective. If you are sure the CD is good then it there must be a problem relating to the CD drive.
As I said before, if you have the original Apple CD-drive try that instead.
If you tell me the model of the Sony drive, I might be able to find useful info that can help.
Regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 17, 2005 - 9:05 am
As I remember, the "Factory OEM CD Drive" went south & required replacement, & that's how/why the Sony was pressed into service ... but I'll try to identify this unit (requires removal) and send along all pertinent info regarding it.
As I had said earlier, the CD is an official OEM Apple "Mac OS X Panther Version 10.3 Install Disc 1 Upgrade Disc 2Z691-4633-A", and I have noticed an area of the bottom "read" side which has a surface "blemish" at the outer edge. It appears to have been the result of some kind of vibratory abrasion. Others have told me that it is of no consequence because the data is read "from the inside" and surface scratches make no difference. I don't trust that opinion, however, my available funds to chase multiple purchases of software must take a back seat to reconstructing my One Man Business, while supporting the IRS. In other words, if I had the deep pockets, I would have just bought a new one!
ANYWAY, When the Official OEM CD didn't work, I did try a couple of copies from other sources. They ALL had the same result alluded to earlier ... so logic suggests your suspicions regarding the Sony MAY BE the true culprit!
btw, is there any way to learn the name/model of the ORIGINAL CD drive so I can find one to install? Or a compatible replacement sharing the prerequisite specs?
And, please remember: I Thank You for your help & sage advice!
Tony
As I had said earlier, the CD is an official OEM Apple "Mac OS X Panther Version 10.3 Install Disc 1 Upgrade Disc 2Z691-4633-A", and I have noticed an area of the bottom "read" side which has a surface "blemish" at the outer edge. It appears to have been the result of some kind of vibratory abrasion. Others have told me that it is of no consequence because the data is read "from the inside" and surface scratches make no difference. I don't trust that opinion, however, my available funds to chase multiple purchases of software must take a back seat to reconstructing my One Man Business, while supporting the IRS. In other words, if I had the deep pockets, I would have just bought a new one!
ANYWAY, When the Official OEM CD didn't work, I did try a couple of copies from other sources. They ALL had the same result alluded to earlier ... so logic suggests your suspicions regarding the Sony MAY BE the true culprit!
btw, is there any way to learn the name/model of the ORIGINAL CD drive so I can find one to install? Or a compatible replacement sharing the prerequisite specs?
And, please remember: I Thank You for your help & sage advice!
Tony
Drumhum - Jun 18, 2005 - 6:57 am
Tony,
From the finder if you go to "about this mac" from the apple menu and then click "more info" this will open your system profiler and by selecting ATA you should see tech details about your CD drive. If there is nothing there or some message like "not known" then in a way, we are getting somewhere! if there is info about the drive we might be able to find out any issues with it regarding the mac.
regarding the scratch and your friends view that it wont matter, I'm with you! Its true CD's are read from the centre outwards (ie opposite to vinyl) and I suppose if the disk is not full with data then scratches on the edge may not be obscuring data but frankly if a CD is scratched then the chances are you will have trouble with it.
I feel we are both suspecting your problems with the OS upgrade is down to the Sony drive though.
I'm going to hunt for some more useful info for you and will get back to you soon.
regards
Tom
From the finder if you go to "about this mac" from the apple menu and then click "more info" this will open your system profiler and by selecting ATA you should see tech details about your CD drive. If there is nothing there or some message like "not known" then in a way, we are getting somewhere! if there is info about the drive we might be able to find out any issues with it regarding the mac.
regarding the scratch and your friends view that it wont matter, I'm with you! Its true CD's are read from the centre outwards (ie opposite to vinyl) and I suppose if the disk is not full with data then scratches on the edge may not be obscuring data but frankly if a CD is scratched then the chances are you will have trouble with it.
I feel we are both suspecting your problems with the OS upgrade is down to the Sony drive though.
I'm going to hunt for some more useful info for you and will get back to you soon.
regards
Tom
Tony Funches - Jun 19, 2005 - 2:52 am
Thanks Tom; YOU are what "Computing Community" is ALL about.
I'll follow your instructions & attempt to "copy & paste" the resultant tech info. If that isn't a viable option, I'll just remember how to "Take Notes" & send them instead!
Cheers & Happy Father's Day!
I am willing to bet that I don't get a call from Son, Daughter OR Grandson, but there's always that Hot Rod Bronco I'm selling to keep me company ...
I'll follow your instructions & attempt to "copy & paste" the resultant tech info. If that isn't a viable option, I'll just remember how to "Take Notes" & send them instead!
Cheers & Happy Father's Day!
I am willing to bet that I don't get a call from Son, Daughter OR Grandson, but there's always that Hot Rod Bronco I'm selling to keep me company ...
Tony Funches - Jul 5, 2005 - 5:48 pm
Hi Tom! How's Things?
Cannot find/locate the OEM CD Drive ... did try a (brand new) different one but no change ...
btw, I just posted a new question on my M.I.A. 38GB "Master G3" drive.
How was your Holiday Weekend? Hope ya had fun ...
Cheers TF
Cannot find/locate the OEM CD Drive ... did try a (brand new) different one but no change ...
btw, I just posted a new question on my M.I.A. 38GB "Master G3" drive.
How was your Holiday Weekend? Hope ya had fun ...
Cheers TF
Drumhum - Jul 6, 2005 - 7:10 am
Hi Tony,
Sorry to hear you are still battling without a solution!
I consulted other techs on macosx.com and unfortunately no-one came back with a magic solution. Our current thinking is...
a) There's an issue with your CD. One tech was un-happy with the fact your cd has "Upgrade" on it and that it may only work with a certain Mac OS - ie its for upgrading say from 10.3 to 10.3.8 and wont work with any other OS below 10.3 for example. I know you've said you have tried other CD's but I am wondering if, by coincidence, you've just had bad CD's
b) We all agree that a CD drive can work in (almost) every way but can be still incompatible when it comes down to booting/starting up from CD. As you installed this drive yourself, did you take note of any jumper connections. On the drive itself there will be a set of tiny switches which need to be set in a certain way for perfect computer/drive communication. Sometimes rather than switches there are a row of pins which can be connected to each other via tiny plastic "jumper connectors". If the drive has come from a windows machine it is possible that these "jumper" switches need to be adjusted to make the Mac happy.
If you can tell me the exact model of the drive (probably some obscure sounding number/letter sequence!) I will look up the info on this drive.
So in summary...
**try using another OS Install CD that is clearly a general CD issued by apple to work with anything (ie it isn't for some specific computer or OS).
**send me the exact model name/number of your drive so I can look it up. There could well be other info on the drive casing that could be useful so have a good look! Note any switch or pin settings, if you can, as well.
After all this time/effort it would be great to find a solution wouldn't it!!
I've just had a look at your other question regarding your firewire HD. Another tech seems to have replied but here's my penny worth...
The other tech suggests you try DiskUtility (applications->Utility folder) to see if the application "sees" the drive. If it does see it, select it and click "repair disk". This could well bring your drive back on line.
The best application for rescuing drives, in my opinion, is DiskWarrior. It is well worth buying this disk-repair software. It is far more sophisticated than DiskUtility and seems to solve far more problems. I run it regularly on my system drive and it really seems to make a difference, keeping my computer stable and healthy. Of course to repair your system drive you need to start-up from CD which brings us back to square one - Doh!
As for holiday weekend... what holiday weekend? No holidays for us Brits:-(
We're having rather a lot of rain at present too - how we love the British weather!
get back to me with that CD drive model number (and even serial number too!) and lets see if we can get to the bottom of things! If you can note how any switches or jumper connectors are organised that too would be useful.
Regards
Tom
--------
You will be asked for feedback once this query is closed. All us techs love to get feedback:-) Thanks for using macosx.com
Sorry to hear you are still battling without a solution!
I consulted other techs on macosx.com and unfortunately no-one came back with a magic solution. Our current thinking is...
a) There's an issue with your CD. One tech was un-happy with the fact your cd has "Upgrade" on it and that it may only work with a certain Mac OS - ie its for upgrading say from 10.3 to 10.3.8 and wont work with any other OS below 10.3 for example. I know you've said you have tried other CD's but I am wondering if, by coincidence, you've just had bad CD's
b) We all agree that a CD drive can work in (almost) every way but can be still incompatible when it comes down to booting/starting up from CD. As you installed this drive yourself, did you take note of any jumper connections. On the drive itself there will be a set of tiny switches which need to be set in a certain way for perfect computer/drive communication. Sometimes rather than switches there are a row of pins which can be connected to each other via tiny plastic "jumper connectors". If the drive has come from a windows machine it is possible that these "jumper" switches need to be adjusted to make the Mac happy.
If you can tell me the exact model of the drive (probably some obscure sounding number/letter sequence!) I will look up the info on this drive.
So in summary...
**try using another OS Install CD that is clearly a general CD issued by apple to work with anything (ie it isn't for some specific computer or OS).
**send me the exact model name/number of your drive so I can look it up. There could well be other info on the drive casing that could be useful so have a good look! Note any switch or pin settings, if you can, as well.
After all this time/effort it would be great to find a solution wouldn't it!!
I've just had a look at your other question regarding your firewire HD. Another tech seems to have replied but here's my penny worth...
The other tech suggests you try DiskUtility (applications->Utility folder) to see if the application "sees" the drive. If it does see it, select it and click "repair disk". This could well bring your drive back on line.
The best application for rescuing drives, in my opinion, is DiskWarrior. It is well worth buying this disk-repair software. It is far more sophisticated than DiskUtility and seems to solve far more problems. I run it regularly on my system drive and it really seems to make a difference, keeping my computer stable and healthy. Of course to repair your system drive you need to start-up from CD which brings us back to square one - Doh!
As for holiday weekend... what holiday weekend? No holidays for us Brits:-(
We're having rather a lot of rain at present too - how we love the British weather!
get back to me with that CD drive model number (and even serial number too!) and lets see if we can get to the bottom of things! If you can note how any switches or jumper connectors are organised that too would be useful.
Regards
Tom
--------
You will be asked for feedback once this query is closed. All us techs love to get feedback:-) Thanks for using macosx.com
Tony Funches - Jul 6, 2005 - 8:52 am
will print your response & follow the suggestions/instructions ... and then go "shopping" for ANOTHER basic install CD ...
Results to follow ...
Results to follow ...
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