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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Imac G3 Crashes On Os X Install Attempt
iScootMAC - Oct 6, 2005 - 11:13 am
I've been trying to install OS X (10.2, 10.3, doesn't matter) on an iMac G3, but it crashes before finishing loading from the CD. Looks like a kernal panic (white text, black background). I've updated the firmware and made sure it is at version 4.1.9. I did a clean install of OS 9.1, then updated to OS 9.2.1, then to OS 9.2.2.
Searching on the web, I noticed this type of thing is referred to as the OS X firmware trap. The only thing I am curious about now is how come, with the correct version of firmware, can I not install OS X?
I'm a technician at an AASP in Rhode Island, so I've tried everything I know to try. I can start with basic stuff or advanced. I just want to get an answer! :-) Thanks!
Searching on the web, I noticed this type of thing is referred to as the OS X firmware trap. The only thing I am curious about now is how come, with the correct version of firmware, can I not install OS X?
I'm a technician at an AASP in Rhode Island, so I've tried everything I know to try. I can start with basic stuff or advanced. I just want to get an answer! :-) Thanks!
philippe99 - Oct 6, 2005 - 11:28 am
Scott, welcome on macosx.com
> Searching on the web, I noticed this type of thing is referred to
> as the OS X firmware trap
Sometimes this can also be a problem of RAM board: Mac OSX (Panther sometimes, Tiger sure) are very sensible to the quality of Ram
Despite the min of 128 MB for Panther / 256 for Tiger, can you check the RAM board (3rd-party ones,..) to see if this not helps ?
Regards
Philippe
> Searching on the web, I noticed this type of thing is referred to
> as the OS X firmware trap
Sometimes this can also be a problem of RAM board: Mac OSX (Panther sometimes, Tiger sure) are very sensible to the quality of Ram
Despite the min of 128 MB for Panther / 256 for Tiger, can you check the RAM board (3rd-party ones,..) to see if this not helps ?
Regards
Philippe
iScootMAC - Oct 7, 2005 - 9:00 am
Good idea. I did check the issue with several different types of RAM... I actually had a known-good 256MB chip (that was originally shipped with an Apple computer). At one point, I had two 64MB chips. At another point I had a 256MB and a 128MB. I've tried with all varieties. Is there a particular brand of RAM, perhaps, that might be fighting me here? All the RAM I've tried is PC100... but the iMac takes PC100, so I figured it was okay.
I was told that once someone tries to install OS X without updating the firmware, it will 'kill' the logic board. That's what I'm trying to find out. (Unfortunately, I wasn't the one who tried to install OS X on this iMac... or else I would've done the firmware update! :-) ).
Another piece of information for you... I actually have two iMac logic boards with this same issue. I've been interchanging parts from several iMacs to try to get to the bottom of it. I'm using a brand new PMU battery, as well.
Any help is great!
I was told that once someone tries to install OS X without updating the firmware, it will 'kill' the logic board. That's what I'm trying to find out. (Unfortunately, I wasn't the one who tried to install OS X on this iMac... or else I would've done the firmware update! :-) ).
Another piece of information for you... I actually have two iMac logic boards with this same issue. I've been interchanging parts from several iMacs to try to get to the bottom of it. I'm using a brand new PMU battery, as well.
Any help is great!
philippe99 - Oct 7, 2005 - 12:17 pm
Well, as you said " I've updated the firmware", I think you really did it before installing OSX.
But now, with "I wasn't the one who tried to install OS X on this iMac", I can imagine that someone tries to install OSQX without updating the firmware.
As an software engineer, I think it is a pity that a company which makes iDVD, iMovie, Isomething... is not able to put 4 lines of codes in their installer to check if the firmware is up-to-date.
Since 2003, I see 5 iMac G3 going to the recycle park because of this !
Oh, yes, the guys who have the problems, buy a new mac: yes, good way for renewing the iMac base !
Oh, yes, there is a line in the installer Readme which speaks about..
Who carefully reads its car how-to manual before driving his first new miles ???
macintoush speaks about all the solutions to this issue
http://www.macintouch.com/panfirmware.html
But these solutions imply a external monitor
See also
http://www.capecodgraphics.com/imac_firmware.htm
And the other hand -the money hand-, the reparation of such damaged iMac will cost bucks on any Apple authorized dealers..compared to the 200/300 $ a second hand iMac G3 DV is sold on ebay or related second-hand shop
What I would do:
* boot on an 9.1 CD and re-install a fresh 9.1 OS (complete Erase !) on the machine
* update to 9.2.2
* install firmware
* install Panther
Philippe
But now, with "I wasn't the one who tried to install OS X on this iMac", I can imagine that someone tries to install OSQX without updating the firmware.
As an software engineer, I think it is a pity that a company which makes iDVD, iMovie, Isomething... is not able to put 4 lines of codes in their installer to check if the firmware is up-to-date.
Since 2003, I see 5 iMac G3 going to the recycle park because of this !
Oh, yes, the guys who have the problems, buy a new mac: yes, good way for renewing the iMac base !
Oh, yes, there is a line in the installer Readme which speaks about..
Who carefully reads its car how-to manual before driving his first new miles ???
macintoush speaks about all the solutions to this issue
http://www.macintouch.com/panfirmware.html
But these solutions imply a external monitor
See also
http://www.capecodgraphics.com/imac_firmware.htm
And the other hand -the money hand-, the reparation of such damaged iMac will cost bucks on any Apple authorized dealers..compared to the 200/300 $ a second hand iMac G3 DV is sold on ebay or related second-hand shop
What I would do:
* boot on an 9.1 CD and re-install a fresh 9.1 OS (complete Erase !) on the machine
* update to 9.2.2
* install firmware
* install Panther
Philippe
iScootMAC - Oct 10, 2005 - 3:17 pm
Yeah, ya know, the more I read about this topic online, the more frustrating it gets. I'm not a programmer, but how hard could it have been to add a few extra lines of code that alarm the user to install the firmware before updating? Ugh.
Anywho, in trying to fix this issue, I've tried lots of things. One of them is to completely initialize the hard drive (I actually zeroed out the data, just for kicks). I then installed OS 9.1, since that was the original OS that supposedly came with this particular iMac. I then ran the Software Update until there was no more to update. Then installed OS 9.2.1, and ran the Software Update again. Now I'm at 9.2.2 with all updates applied. Including the firmware update to version 4.1.9.
I'm going to check out those links you provided right now. Does it matter that I'm trying to install Jaguar (10.2) instead? I mean, I think I also tried Panther, too, but just curious. Along that line, would it be worth my time to try installing 10.0.3 or 10.1 (I have the original install discs)?
Thanks again... I'm just trying to get closure on this issue so I know I have dead logic boards or not (or at very least boards that won't upgrade above 9.2.2).
Anywho, in trying to fix this issue, I've tried lots of things. One of them is to completely initialize the hard drive (I actually zeroed out the data, just for kicks). I then installed OS 9.1, since that was the original OS that supposedly came with this particular iMac. I then ran the Software Update until there was no more to update. Then installed OS 9.2.1, and ran the Software Update again. Now I'm at 9.2.2 with all updates applied. Including the firmware update to version 4.1.9.
I'm going to check out those links you provided right now. Does it matter that I'm trying to install Jaguar (10.2) instead? I mean, I think I also tried Panther, too, but just curious. Along that line, would it be worth my time to try installing 10.0.3 or 10.1 (I have the original install discs)?
Thanks again... I'm just trying to get closure on this issue so I know I have dead logic boards or not (or at very least boards that won't upgrade above 9.2.2).
philippe99 - Oct 11, 2005 - 11:53 am
Scott, on your G3 - my daugther has one, so I had appreciate the difference -, Panther is more useable than Jaguar
Do not spend time wiht 10.1 Puma..too slow...first Apple attempt in the Unix world.. I never install it.
Nor Jaguar: I jump to panther on the G3 (320MB Ram)
And do not dream about Tiger on the G3: Apple says it requiers at least 256MB. I saw Tiger on a Mini first generation with 256 MB - my god- 9.22 is more powerfull ;-)
For Tiger a minimum is 512Mb
Philippe
Do not spend time wiht 10.1 Puma..too slow...first Apple attempt in the Unix world.. I never install it.
Nor Jaguar: I jump to panther on the G3 (320MB Ram)
And do not dream about Tiger on the G3: Apple says it requiers at least 256MB. I saw Tiger on a Mini first generation with 256 MB - my god- 9.22 is more powerfull ;-)
For Tiger a minimum is 512Mb
Philippe
iScootMAC - Oct 12, 2005 - 10:14 am
I completely agree with the OS'. I'll only install Panther... unless I'm putting together an older iMac G3 for resale (which was my main reason for trying to recover these logic boards).
In reference to the firmware issue... does it seem like these boards are pretty much worthless (unless I use them only in OS 9)?
In reference to the firmware issue... does it seem like these boards are pretty much worthless (unless I use them only in OS 9)?
philippe99 - Oct 13, 2005 - 11:51 am
> does it seem like these boards are pretty much worthless
> (unless I use them only in OS 9)?
?? Which 'boards' do you speak about: logic boards or RAM boards ?
If 'logic', nobody now would changr the logic board of a G3: too much work for a machine which costs so few !
Philippe
> (unless I use them only in OS 9)?
?? Which 'boards' do you speak about: logic boards or RAM boards ?
If 'logic', nobody now would changr the logic board of a G3: too much work for a machine which costs so few !
Philippe
iScootMAC - Oct 13, 2005 - 3:29 pm
I was talking about logic boards.
And what I asking about was if there was a way to repair them so that they will boot OS X... or if they're useless.
And what I asking about was if there was a way to repair them so that they will boot OS X... or if they're useless.
philippe99 - Oct 14, 2005 - 11:53 am
Either on my Macs or on my Windows machines, I never think a single second to try to repair the logic board of a computer.
When you buy the machine, the day after the machine is outdated, the logic board also
I just keep to show my daughters how the electronic design has changed from the SE logic board to a G3 one ...not already have fried a G4/G5 logic board ;-)
Philippe
When you buy the machine, the day after the machine is outdated, the logic board also
I just keep to show my daughters how the electronic design has changed from the SE logic board to a G3 one ...not already have fried a G4/G5 logic board ;-)
Philippe
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