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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Installing Classic On G3 With Os10.2
sisternance - Aug 3, 2005 - 8:59 am
After many years of not using a Mac, I recently purchased a used G3 blue and white that came with sys. 10.2. Now I find that I need to have OS9.2 also installed in order to run older software and to hook up my printer.
When I tried to install OS 9.2, it tells me to update my firmware. When I go to Apple's website to get the firmware, it tells me that I should not update firmware if I am running OS10. Now what. Help!
When I tried to install OS 9.2, it tells me to update my firmware. When I go to Apple's website to get the firmware, it tells me that I should not update firmware if I am running OS10. Now what. Help!
skapp - Aug 3, 2005 - 1:35 pm
You need to boot the computer into OS 8.5.1 or higher to install the firmware update.
Insert the OS 9 Installer CD into the optical drive and restart. Immediately press and hold down the "C" key until the computer starts up from the CD. Proceed to install OS 9. Note that in early dialogs you may be asked to verify and repair the hard drive. Do not. Also check all Options buttons. One may ask you if you want to erase the drive. Do not. At the point where you choose a destination disk you should see a Customize button. If you wish to customizat the installation press that button.
After installing OS 9 you want to boot the computer into OS 9 to install the firmware update.
Insert the OS 9 Installer CD into the optical drive and restart. Immediately press and hold down the "C" key until the computer starts up from the CD. Proceed to install OS 9. Note that in early dialogs you may be asked to verify and repair the hard drive. Do not. Also check all Options buttons. One may ask you if you want to erase the drive. Do not. At the point where you choose a destination disk you should see a Customize button. If you wish to customizat the installation press that button.
After installing OS 9 you want to boot the computer into OS 9 to install the firmware update.
sisternance - Aug 3, 2005 - 2:28 pm
Thanks so much for your quick response.
However, I have already installed the OS9 CD and have booted from it. The message I get is:
"Your Mac's firmware is out of date. Firmware updates can be found in the CD extras folder on your Mac OS CD. Refer to the Mac OS installation manual for more info."
I cannot select anything else. There are many items in the CD extras folder, but I don't have a clue what to do with them.
As I said, I tried to download firmware updates, but I must do so using OS10 and it tells me not to.
However, I have already installed the OS9 CD and have booted from it. The message I get is:
"Your Mac's firmware is out of date. Firmware updates can be found in the CD extras folder on your Mac OS CD. Refer to the Mac OS installation manual for more info."
I cannot select anything else. There are many items in the CD extras folder, but I don't have a clue what to do with them.
As I said, I tried to download firmware updates, but I must do so using OS10 and it tells me not to.
skapp - Aug 3, 2005 - 2:58 pm
Well, first you can download the firmware update while booted in OS X, you just can't install it from OS X.
Second, if you look in the appropriate folder on the OS 9 CD you will find a bunch of firmware updates (either in one folder or individual folders) so look for the one designated for your computer model. Then simply double-click on the updater. If you get the wrong one it will tell you.
Second, if you look in the appropriate folder on the OS 9 CD you will find a bunch of firmware updates (either in one folder or individual folders) so look for the one designated for your computer model. Then simply double-click on the updater. If you get the wrong one it will tell you.
sisternance - Aug 4, 2005 - 3:28 pm
I have tried to install items from the CD extras folder found on the OS9 disk. I am told it can't be done since my system is locked.
I then downloaded the firmware for the G3 from the Mac website, then tried to install it while restarting from my OS9 disk. I got the following message:
"The G3 firmware updater cannot move necessary files to the current system folder because the volume is locked. Please restart from an unlocked volume."
Any suggestions?
I then downloaded the firmware for the G3 from the Mac website, then tried to install it while restarting from my OS9 disk. I got the following message:
"The G3 firmware updater cannot move necessary files to the current system folder because the volume is locked. Please restart from an unlocked volume."
Any suggestions?
skapp - Aug 4, 2005 - 3:33 pm
You must first install OS 9 on the hard drive. You cannot install the firmware update while booted from the CD.
sisternance - Aug 4, 2005 - 8:34 pm
I know. That's what I have been trying to do. Please re-read my original message. I need help getting OS9 installed on my hard drive, but cannot because I get the firmware message. The current and only system that is on this G3 is OSX.
skapp - Aug 4, 2005 - 8:55 pm
I am totally puzzled as to why you cannot install OS 9. The firmware update information says it can be installed from 8.5.1 to 9.x, so I am at a loss as to why the OS 9 installer refuses to run. The following article covers the battlefield of installing OS 9 post OS X: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106294.
Oh, also check this out: Select your hard drive with the mouse and press COMMAND-I to open the Get Info window. Check to be sure the Locked box is unchecked. If it is checked, then uncheck it. Also, in the ownership and permissions section be sure the box Ignore permissions is also unchecked. Then check the Owner, Group, and Other settings. They should be: system with r/w privileges; admin with r/w privileges; read-only; respectively. If they are not set correctly, then correct the settings.
What software disks do you have that came with the computer?
Oh, also check this out: Select your hard drive with the mouse and press COMMAND-I to open the Get Info window. Check to be sure the Locked box is unchecked. If it is checked, then uncheck it. Also, in the ownership and permissions section be sure the box Ignore permissions is also unchecked. Then check the Owner, Group, and Other settings. They should be: system with r/w privileges; admin with r/w privileges; read-only; respectively. If they are not set correctly, then correct the settings.
What software disks do you have that came with the computer?
sisternance - Aug 4, 2005 - 10:04 pm
Wow....from what I see in the article, the older Macs were much easier to deal with. Not sure where to begin with all of that. This is all quite discouraging.
I went to the Get Info window of the hard drive. The lock was on. So I clicked on it (there are no checkboxes) and then I selected the following:
Owner: system
Access: read & write (this option is dimmed)
Group: admin
Access: read & write (dimmed)
Others: read only (dimmed)
It asked me to accept these changes and I did. Then, when I rebooted the system, the lock was back on again.
I went to the Get Info window of the hard drive. The lock was on. So I clicked on it (there are no checkboxes) and then I selected the following:
Owner: system
Access: read & write (this option is dimmed)
Group: admin
Access: read & write (dimmed)
Others: read only (dimmed)
It asked me to accept these changes and I did. Then, when I rebooted the system, the lock was back on again.
skapp - Aug 4, 2005 - 11:16 pm
The "lock" I'm referring to is not the icon of a lock, rather it's a checkbox with the word "Locked" alongside. If there's a checkmark in that box, then uncheck it.
The permissions on the drive are correct.
I just don't understand what the problem is since the computer shouldn't need the firmware update to install OS 9.
I know you are getting frustrated and impatient. When you are trying to install OS 9 are you booting from the OS 9 CD? Do you have the installer disks for OS X? If you had to, could you erase the hard drive and start from scratch? Of course if you have stuff you need to save, you'll need some way to backup everything.
The permissions on the drive are correct.
I just don't understand what the problem is since the computer shouldn't need the firmware update to install OS 9.
I know you are getting frustrated and impatient. When you are trying to install OS 9 are you booting from the OS 9 CD? Do you have the installer disks for OS X? If you had to, could you erase the hard drive and start from scratch? Of course if you have stuff you need to save, you'll need some way to backup everything.
sisternance - Aug 5, 2005 - 6:43 am
Yes, absolutely booting from the OS9 cd. I thought maybe it was the CD itself, since I just purchased it, but I have another OS9 CD from I purchased a few years ago and it does the same thing.
There is no "locked" on the Get Info window and no boxes to uncheck.
I received no installer disks when I bought this computer since it is used. I recently purchased a copy of OSX to use as a back up. Am I correct in assuming that this is all I need if I should have to erase the hard drive?
I really appreciate you trying to help me and responding so quickly.
This all started only because I am trying to hook up a printer. I have a newer Brother all in one Laser that when I insert the CD it tells me I need to have Classic. Is there perhaps another way to hook this up directly using OSX?
There is no "locked" on the Get Info window and no boxes to uncheck.
I received no installer disks when I bought this computer since it is used. I recently purchased a copy of OSX to use as a back up. Am I correct in assuming that this is all I need if I should have to erase the hard drive?
I really appreciate you trying to help me and responding so quickly.
This all started only because I am trying to hook up a printer. I have a newer Brother all in one Laser that when I insert the CD it tells me I need to have Classic. Is there perhaps another way to hook this up directly using OSX?
skapp - Aug 5, 2005 - 1:27 pm
Nancy, Nancy, I wish you had mentioned this earlier! Even if you installed OS 9 in order to install the printer driver, you would not have been able to print from OS X, only from OS 9.
What you need is to visit the Brother website and see if they have an OS X printer driver. What is the exact model number of the printer?
What you need is to visit the Brother website and see if they have an OS X printer driver. What is the exact model number of the printer?
sisternance - Aug 5, 2005 - 4:44 pm
In all honesty, I was originally going to hook up my old HP Laserjet 5MP to this G3, but I gave up on that idea when I found out I would have to network it and look for a way to hook up an ethernet connection. I also had some old software I wanted to use, so that's also why I wanted to install OS9. The old HP is a great printer, so I really hate to retire it but this is just all too complicated for me. So I thought I would instead take the Brother which is currently hooked up to my ready-for-the-trash pc. Then I got the old Classic message again. It never occurred to me that trying to install another system could cause all these problems.
Anyway, the Brother is an MFC 4800 which I purchased about 4 months ago. Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Anyway, the Brother is an MFC 4800 which I purchased about 4 months ago. Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
skapp - Aug 5, 2005 - 7:28 pm
Nancy,
Go to the following site:
http://global.solutions.brother.com/...n_us/download/
You can then choose the required OS X drivers at the page and then download them. You then need to install the drivers while you are booted into OS X. Then follow the help information on how to install a printer.
Be sure you choose the driver for OS X 10.2 since this is the version you have installed.
By the way it would be pretty easy to hook up your HP printer, all you need to do is purchase an inexpensive Ethernet hub. Connect an Ethernet cable from the computer to the hub and an Ethernet cable from the printer to the hub. You will need to set in IP address on the printer unless you already have one set for the printer. Then use the OS X Print Center to add the printer as an IP or LPR printer, provide the printer's IP address and a queue name (make one up with no more than 8 or so characters, no punctuation), then select the HP5 driver from the list of HP drivers and you're done.
The above is pretty much the same for the Brother except you wouldn't use IP printing but USB, I assume.
OK, so much for the printers. If you decide you want to erase the drive and start from scratch, then do the following:
Boot from the OS 9 Installer CD. After you have started up from the OS 9 CD, go to the Utilities folder on the CD and look for Drive Setup. Double-click on the Drive Setup icon to run the application. Use Drive Setup to reformat or initialize the hard drive. Be sure to choose Mac OS Extended (HFS+) as the format type, then reformat the hard drive. After formatting is completed quit Drive Setup, run the OS 9 system installer and install OS 9 onto the hard drive. Once you've done that you can boot into OS 9 on the hard drive and install the firmware update. After installing the firmware update you can then boot from your OS X Installer Disks and reinstall OS X.
Go to the following site:
http://global.solutions.brother.com/...n_us/download/
You can then choose the required OS X drivers at the page and then download them. You then need to install the drivers while you are booted into OS X. Then follow the help information on how to install a printer.
Be sure you choose the driver for OS X 10.2 since this is the version you have installed.
By the way it would be pretty easy to hook up your HP printer, all you need to do is purchase an inexpensive Ethernet hub. Connect an Ethernet cable from the computer to the hub and an Ethernet cable from the printer to the hub. You will need to set in IP address on the printer unless you already have one set for the printer. Then use the OS X Print Center to add the printer as an IP or LPR printer, provide the printer's IP address and a queue name (make one up with no more than 8 or so characters, no punctuation), then select the HP5 driver from the list of HP drivers and you're done.
The above is pretty much the same for the Brother except you wouldn't use IP printing but USB, I assume.
OK, so much for the printers. If you decide you want to erase the drive and start from scratch, then do the following:
Boot from the OS 9 Installer CD. After you have started up from the OS 9 CD, go to the Utilities folder on the CD and look for Drive Setup. Double-click on the Drive Setup icon to run the application. Use Drive Setup to reformat or initialize the hard drive. Be sure to choose Mac OS Extended (HFS+) as the format type, then reformat the hard drive. After formatting is completed quit Drive Setup, run the OS 9 system installer and install OS 9 onto the hard drive. Once you've done that you can boot into OS 9 on the hard drive and install the firmware update. After installing the firmware update you can then boot from your OS X Installer Disks and reinstall OS X.
sisternance - Aug 5, 2005 - 10:30 pm
Steve,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have been such a help to me. I know you have worked hard on all of this and I can't tell you how very much I appreciate all you have done.
As for the HP printer, the other problem I have is that there is not an ethernet connection on it. I have a telephone-style connector.
For now, I will go to the website to get the Brother download and will get back to you soon to let you know if it works.
Thanks again.
Nancy
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have been such a help to me. I know you have worked hard on all of this and I can't tell you how very much I appreciate all you have done.
As for the HP printer, the other problem I have is that there is not an ethernet connection on it. I have a telephone-style connector.
For now, I will go to the website to get the Brother download and will get back to you soon to let you know if it works.
Thanks again.
Nancy
skapp - Aug 6, 2005 - 1:33 am
Nancy,
I think if you look closer at the connector on the HP printer you will see it's an Ethernet jack. They look like phone connectors but they are larger. The old HP laserjets that were network ready all supported Ethernet. Check it again to see.
I think if you look closer at the connector on the HP printer you will see it's an Ethernet jack. They look like phone connectors but they are larger. The old HP laserjets that were network ready all supported Ethernet. Check it again to see.
sisternance - Aug 6, 2005 - 8:23 am
I wish that were true, but unfortunately, it is not. It is small...that same as for a telephone. I have an adaptor connected to it (the old round-type) that enabled it to be connected to my old Mac. Someone told me I would need a Farallon or something like that to convert it to Ethernet. Just don't know if it is worth all of the trouble to locate, purchase the cables and then figure out how to do the networking. Besides, although this may seem like a piece of cake to you, this is all too technical for my non-technical brain! I also need more memory in this G3, but I have never opened up the box of any of my computers....we won't even go there. I have a feeling that my 128 mb is not going to go far with OSX, so I may have to get brave and repost about learning how to do just that in the not too distant future.
skapp - Aug 6, 2005 - 2:24 pm
The HP5MP must have been an oddball model. However, it should have a LocalTalk port. If it does you can buy an Asante device (AsanteTalk) that will enable you to connect the printer to an Ethernet network.
As for adding memory to the computer, it's easier than you may think. Open the side panel and the entire motherboard will be staring up at you. There are 4 slots for RAM. Yours will have either one or two slots already in use. You can expand memory to a max of 1 GB (4 - 256 MB DIMMs.) If you don't want to remove the RAM already installed, then you can simply add 256 MB modules to the remaining empty slots. I have purchased my RAM from DataMem (www.datamem.com) for years and have always been satisfied with their products. They have complete Mac coverage with RAM organized by various models to make it easy to find the correct product for your computer. They also have excellent prices.
While you are examing the motherboard look for a small battery holder on the board. It may or may not have a cover on it. The battery is a 3.6 V, 1/2 AA size lithium cell that you can buy at Radio Shack or battery store for about $10.00. I would recommend replacing the battery.
As for adding memory to the computer, it's easier than you may think. Open the side panel and the entire motherboard will be staring up at you. There are 4 slots for RAM. Yours will have either one or two slots already in use. You can expand memory to a max of 1 GB (4 - 256 MB DIMMs.) If you don't want to remove the RAM already installed, then you can simply add 256 MB modules to the remaining empty slots. I have purchased my RAM from DataMem (www.datamem.com) for years and have always been satisfied with their products. They have complete Mac coverage with RAM organized by various models to make it easy to find the correct product for your computer. They also have excellent prices.
While you are examing the motherboard look for a small battery holder on the board. It may or may not have a cover on it. The battery is a 3.6 V, 1/2 AA size lithium cell that you can buy at Radio Shack or battery store for about $10.00. I would recommend replacing the battery.
sisternance - Aug 6, 2005 - 9:31 pm
Thank you once again! You have been more than helpful. I wil be using your instructions and hopefully be printing soon and installing the memory. Thanks, too for the tip on the battery. Great advice!
I'll let you know what happens....
Nancy
I'll let you know what happens....
Nancy
sisternance - Aug 10, 2005 - 7:19 pm
Steven I just wanted to let you know that I am printing and scanning away on my Brother MFC thanks to the link you sent me. My old HP will have to wait. Next I'll start looking for some more memory. Thanks once again!
skapp - Aug 10, 2005 - 7:57 pm
Your quite welcome, and congratulations on getting things working!!
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