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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Installing New Hard Drive
user55 - Jun 20, 2005 - 11:49 am
I've just acquired several Macintosh computers, iMac G3s (all in one) and PowerMac G3s (beige box). The HDDs are a little on the lean side and I'd like to install a larger HDD without losing the Data, O/S, and Programs on a direct HDD to HDD connection. I am new to Mac.
skapp - Jun 20, 2005 - 7:14 pm
This is easy in the Beige G3 because it already can accomodate a second hard drive. All the computers use standard ATA drives. However, the iMacs only can accomodate a single internal hard drive.
On the Beige G3 you can add the second hard drive to the existing ribbon cable that is connected to the main drive. There's also an extra power cable. The new drive fits in one of the slots behind the front panel. Set the jumpers on the back of the new drive for a SLAVE. The main drive is already set as MASTER. After the drive is installed you can boot up the system and format the new drive. You can then transfer the contents of the old drive to the new one, remove the old drive, rejumper the new drive to MASTER and install it where the main drive was located. If you wish to use the old drive, change the jumpers to SLAVE and install it where you installed the new drive temporarily.
Unfortunately, the task is more complicated for the iMacs. You will need to get an external drive case. You will have to check the iMacs to determine what external ports they support. Early iMacs only had USB ports, but later ones had both USB and Firewire. You will need an external case that will work on all the iMacs. The process is similar to the Beige G3. Put the new drive in the external case, connect to the iMac. Boot the iMac, format the new drive, transfer the date from the old drive to the new one, then replace the old drive with the new one.
You don't mention what operating systems are installed on these computers. If any of them have OS X already installed, then transferring the operating system cannot be done by simple drag and drop. You will need cloning software such as Carbon Copy Cloner.
On the Beige G3 you can add the second hard drive to the existing ribbon cable that is connected to the main drive. There's also an extra power cable. The new drive fits in one of the slots behind the front panel. Set the jumpers on the back of the new drive for a SLAVE. The main drive is already set as MASTER. After the drive is installed you can boot up the system and format the new drive. You can then transfer the contents of the old drive to the new one, remove the old drive, rejumper the new drive to MASTER and install it where the main drive was located. If you wish to use the old drive, change the jumpers to SLAVE and install it where you installed the new drive temporarily.
Unfortunately, the task is more complicated for the iMacs. You will need to get an external drive case. You will have to check the iMacs to determine what external ports they support. Early iMacs only had USB ports, but later ones had both USB and Firewire. You will need an external case that will work on all the iMacs. The process is similar to the Beige G3. Put the new drive in the external case, connect to the iMac. Boot the iMac, format the new drive, transfer the date from the old drive to the new one, then replace the old drive with the new one.
You don't mention what operating systems are installed on these computers. If any of them have OS X already installed, then transferring the operating system cannot be done by simple drag and drop. You will need cloning software such as Carbon Copy Cloner.
user55 - Jun 20, 2005 - 9:39 pm
Thanks,I'd like to try the procedure on the beige G3s first but I just got the boxes, nothing else. I'm rounding out my purchases for 2 Apple monitors, 2keyboards and 2 mice for two of those units (test and learn units).I'm planning to install USB PCI cards on the rest. I only have 5 iMacs with OS 9 and it's not too critical right now about those, they can stay as they are for a while. I ended up with a bulk sale of 25 beige G3s and have to work with that pile. First I have to see what works and what doesn't. Looks like next week before I get the first powerMac G3 operating with a keyboard, mouse and monitor. However I did take one out at random and plug in a VGA monitor. Looks like OS 9.2 installed, couldn't get the VGA monitor to work except to flash in and out, the DIP switches on the only adapter were probably in the wrong positions.
Anyway, I guess when the new HDD is formated, I'd just drag the icon from the existing desktop and drop it into the newly formated HDD as it would appear on the desktop. Do I get information on the desktop about the new HDD being installed and what to do with it?
Anyway, I guess when the new HDD is formated, I'd just drag the icon from the existing desktop and drop it into the newly formated HDD as it would appear on the desktop. Do I get information on the desktop about the new HDD being installed and what to do with it?
skapp - Jun 20, 2005 - 10:17 pm
"Do I get information on the desktop about the new HDD being installed and what to do with it?"
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are talking prior to formatting, it depends what operating system is running at the time. In any case if you are using Mac OS the formatting software is called Drive Setup. On OS X it's called Disk Utility.
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are talking prior to formatting, it depends what operating system is running at the time. In any case if you are using Mac OS the formatting software is called Drive Setup. On OS X it's called Disk Utility.
user55 - Jun 20, 2005 - 10:30 pm
I open the computer, install the new drive in the slave position. Turn on the computer. Does something come up on the desktop to notify me that there is an additional HDD in the computer and to select Drive Setup? OS 9.2 will be running at that time.
skapp - Jun 21, 2005 - 12:13 am
You know it's been so long since I used OS 9, I can't remember. It's possible you will get a dialog asking if you want to initialize the drive. If not and there's not drive on the desktop, then open Drive Setup and format the drive.
user55 - Jun 26, 2005 - 5:39 pm
After starting up two of the used macs, I found that there was little to keep and had several folders that were missing(Some items were non functional). Since I don't want to copy possibly corrupted OS system folders to a new HD and don't have the original OS available, instead I'd plow ahead on installing a larger unformatted 40GB rehab HDD with OS X 10.3.3. I installed the 40 GB HDD thinking that I'd get some onscreen help. But since it was unformatted I got a ? instead. I also found that there was only one plug on the IDE cable. Of course the CD-ROM drive is also non operational because of no startup. I have several of these beige G3s. Is it possible to make a floppy start disk from another G3 to start the one with a rehab HDD? I've never worked with multipartitioned HDDs. How is that accomplished? Thanks. New to Mac and I may sound dumb.
skapp - Jun 26, 2005 - 5:48 pm
Beige G3s must have OS X installed on a drive that is less than 8 GBs in size or on the first partition of a larger drive where the partition is less than 8 GBs in size. That is why your rehabed hard drive won't work. OS X cannot be installed from floppy disks nor can OS 9.
user55 - Jun 26, 2005 - 6:40 pm
OK Steven, What's the proceedure for going about eventually installing the OS X 10.3.3 on the 40 GB HDD? I have one each unformatted 40GB HDD, a set of Install CDs for OS X 10.3.3, possibly a corrupted OS 9.2, No OS 9.2 Install or restore CDs. Just went back to the Mac (8 GB HDD reinstalled, OS 9.2 running) for a minute to attempt an install of the OS X 10.3.3 over the OS 9.2. Message said, "Start up Disk was unable to select the install CD as the Startup disk(-2)".
skapp - Jun 26, 2005 - 6:55 pm
I'm not quite sure I understand where you are at this time. Are you saying you've re-installed the original 8 GB hard drive in the Beige G3 which has 9.2 installed on it? And, you are able to boot the computer into 9.2?
user55 - Jun 26, 2005 - 7:50 pm
Yes to both. When I attempt to install the OS X 10.3.3 on that computer I get "Start up Disk was unable to select the install CD as the Startup disk(-2)".
skapp - Jun 26, 2005 - 8:21 pm
OK. Well, I guess we're assuming that the optical drive is functional. To start from the CD do this:
1. Insert the OS X Installer Disk 1 in the optical drive.
2. Restart the computer and immediately hold down the "C" key until the computer starts up from the CD. This takes a little while on those slow Beige G3s.
If the hard drive is already formatted HFS Extended (HFS+ or Mac OS Extended) you're OK. If not, then you will have to reformat the drive which means you will lose the OS 9.x installed on the drive.
Otherwise, after the installer loads you should eventually get to a screen where you have to select a target drive. Be sure to select the internal drive on the computer. Do not select the CD or you'll get that error message.
Now, I have a question regarding the OS X installer disks you have. You mention they are version 10.3.3. Where did they come from? Did you purchase a standard retail installer disk set? Are the CD labels black with a large gray X? Is the word "Upgrade" on the labels? If so, you will not be able to use them to install OS X on the Beige G3 because no prior version of OS X is already installed. If the OS X installer disks came from another Mac, they may not work on any other Mac model than the one they came with.
1. Insert the OS X Installer Disk 1 in the optical drive.
2. Restart the computer and immediately hold down the "C" key until the computer starts up from the CD. This takes a little while on those slow Beige G3s.
If the hard drive is already formatted HFS Extended (HFS+ or Mac OS Extended) you're OK. If not, then you will have to reformat the drive which means you will lose the OS 9.x installed on the drive.
Otherwise, after the installer loads you should eventually get to a screen where you have to select a target drive. Be sure to select the internal drive on the computer. Do not select the CD or you'll get that error message.
Now, I have a question regarding the OS X installer disks you have. You mention they are version 10.3.3. Where did they come from? Did you purchase a standard retail installer disk set? Are the CD labels black with a large gray X? Is the word "Upgrade" on the labels? If so, you will not be able to use them to install OS X on the Beige G3 because no prior version of OS X is already installed. If the OS X installer disks came from another Mac, they may not work on any other Mac model than the one they came with.
user55 - Jun 26, 2005 - 8:36 pm
Ooops!!!! gray labels, white lettering. Says eMac. I'll have to tell the guy who sold them to me to take them back.
skapp - Jun 26, 2005 - 8:45 pm
Oops on my part, too. You can't install 10.3 on a Beige G3 because it doesn't have built-in USB ports. You need 10.1 or 10.2 for the Beige G3. I don't know why I forgot that, my stupidity I guess. It just slipped my mind.
You need a standard retail OS X, either 10.2 Jaguar or 10.1. Jaguar comes with two disks, 10.1 is a single disk. Do not buy any that say "Upgrade" on the label, they won't work for you.
You need a standard retail OS X, either 10.2 Jaguar or 10.1. Jaguar comes with two disks, 10.1 is a single disk. Do not buy any that say "Upgrade" on the label, they won't work for you.
user55 - Jun 27, 2005 - 8:39 am
Words defined:
Forgetful (forget,forgot) - memory loss.
ignorant - lack of knowledge.
careless - applying knowledge incorrectly.
stupid - refusal to apply knowledge.
normal - all of the above.
Now, if I purchase a "full install" of OS X 10.1-10.2 and follow the proceedure, I might get what I want? Will the "full install" reformat the HDD? Can a USB PCI card be installed in lieu of the factory installed ports? Thanks, time to go shopping.
Forgetful (forget,forgot) - memory loss.
ignorant - lack of knowledge.
careless - applying knowledge incorrectly.
stupid - refusal to apply knowledge.
normal - all of the above.
Now, if I purchase a "full install" of OS X 10.1-10.2 and follow the proceedure, I might get what I want? Will the "full install" reformat the HDD? Can a USB PCI card be installed in lieu of the factory installed ports? Thanks, time to go shopping.
skapp - Jun 27, 2005 - 2:02 pm
Yes, you can install OS X 10.1 up to 10.1.5 or 10.2 up to version 10.2.8. I would recommend you install Jaguar as it is significantly better than 10.1.x.
If the hard drive is already formatted HFS Extended, then you don't need to reformat it to install OS X. Jaguar's installer provides a default option to install on an already formatted drive without erasing if no OS X version is already installed. This option will not erase the drive so you won't lose the OS 9 installation.
You can add USB and/or FW ports to the Beige G3 with a PCI card, but that doesn't provide built-in USB, so Panther will not install.
However, there is a third-party utility called XPostFacto (www.versiontracker.com) which can be used to install OS X on computers that do not support OS X. It has also been used to install Panther on Beige G3s from what I hear. I have no experience with it.
I hope somehow this is helpful.
If the hard drive is already formatted HFS Extended, then you don't need to reformat it to install OS X. Jaguar's installer provides a default option to install on an already formatted drive without erasing if no OS X version is already installed. This option will not erase the drive so you won't lose the OS 9 installation.
You can add USB and/or FW ports to the Beige G3 with a PCI card, but that doesn't provide built-in USB, so Panther will not install.
However, there is a third-party utility called XPostFacto (www.versiontracker.com) which can be used to install OS X on computers that do not support OS X. It has also been used to install Panther on Beige G3s from what I hear. I have no experience with it.
I hope somehow this is helpful.
user55 - Jun 27, 2005 - 3:23 pm
To tell you the truth, The way the OS 9.2 is working on the beige G3 now might be labeled dysfunctional. Lots of stuff that say files are missing, operational things of course. I don't even know what is missing, Can't reload IE for Mac on one computer, the other has files missing and no IE. I'm thinking now about just junking the OS 9.2 (no install or restore CDs),doing a HDD reformat and a clean OS X 10.2.8 or similar install on the 8 MB HDD. It's very easy on a PC but,on a MAC??? Of course my refurbs are on hold until I get some OS 10.2.8 CDs. Anyway, what's the benefit of running the OS X on top of the (9.2 OS),There is no data or application on the computer worth saving. I always thought that a clean slate is the best way to start, you know, begin at the beginning.
skapp - Jun 27, 2005 - 3:31 pm
Until very recently all Macs ran and could boot from OS 9. A lot of Mac owners still use OS 9, but want to use OS X as well. However, they don't want to spend the money to upgrade their software. OS X includes an emulator called Classic in which you can run OS 9 applications while still booted into OS X. However, to use the emulator you must have a version of OS 9 installed (OS 9.1 or higher.) So OS X users who need it can either run OS 9 applications in Classic or they can also have a dual boot system where they can choose to boot directly into OS 9 or OS X.
Around June 2004 Apple stopped making computers that could startup in OS 9. Today no current Mac models can boot OS 9. However, they still come with a version of OS 9 either pre-installed or installable that can be used by the OS X Classic emulator. The most recent new models do not come with OS 9 even pre-installed.
Obviously, then, if you have no need for OS 9 there's no reason to even install it. So your idea of simply reformatting the drive and starting from scratch b installing Jaguar is quite valid.
Around June 2004 Apple stopped making computers that could startup in OS 9. Today no current Mac models can boot OS 9. However, they still come with a version of OS 9 either pre-installed or installable that can be used by the OS X Classic emulator. The most recent new models do not come with OS 9 even pre-installed.
Obviously, then, if you have no need for OS 9 there's no reason to even install it. So your idea of simply reformatting the drive and starting from scratch b installing Jaguar is quite valid.
user55 - Jun 27, 2005 - 3:50 pm
That's great news. I'm doing my OS 10.2 shopping ! Thanks Might need your help again when I get the OS.
skapp - Jun 27, 2005 - 5:38 pm
I'll be around when you do.
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