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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Mac Mini Won't Start Up...BIG Problem!

schrutebeets - May 24, 2008 - 9:08 pm

I have a mac mini installed with Tiger OSX 10.4. I recently installed "Norton SystemWorks 2.0" on the computer. I believe it runs on Mac OS 9 (this was probably one of the most stupid things ive ever done). After installing i had to reboot the computer and i got a flashing globe on the screen, then after a few minutes (about 4) it went into it's normal start up with the apple logo.

That worked for a while then it stopped. I resorted to holding the option key when i rebooted (my computer freezes a lot) and clicking the right arrow which booted the computer normally.

Now, if i start the computer (without holding the option key) i just get a folder with a mac face and question mark flashing back and forth. THis is what happened after i reset the PRAM. If i hold down the option key it loads but no volumes are available to boot on. if i click the right arrow nothing happens.

I have tried holding shift, holding x, rebooting from the install disc and holding c, reseting PRAM (which got rid of the globe), starting in single-use mode, holding option for 10 minutes, waiting with the flashing question mark for about 30 minutes, and starting up from install disc #2. So basically i THINK ive tried everything. my computer with just not start up. I plan to erase every trace of norton software once i start the computer up, but i cant see that happening anytime soon without some help...

thanks!

DeltaMac - May 24, 2008 - 9:41 pm

I'm going to guess just a bit....
Were you having problems with your system BEFORE you tried installing the Norton software? So, I'm guessing that you wanted to try some repairs on your system, eh? Did you ever successfully RUN the Norton software, or simply installed it?
Yes, you probably need to remove all the Norton software next. Don't forget that some of the Norton files will have the letters sym (for Symantec) somewhere in the name of the file. Might help you if you want to find all of the bad files.
Of course, Norton hasn't had any good software for the Mac since OS 9 days, and I have personal bad experience trying out SystemWorks 3, so I know where you are....
Your startup disk was probably reset - so, if you can boot to your installer disk (should be disk #1), open Startup Disk from the Utilities menu, and select your OS X hard drive. That might help you get booted, but you should try Safe Boot mode (hold the shift key until you see the rotating gear). If you can boot at all, that may get you completely booted, so you can remove the norton's stuff.
I have an external hard drive with a good install of OS X, that I use to boot a lot of different Macs. Then, I can go to the directory of the faulty Mac, and remove a few files.
What you may need at this point, is to reinstall OS X, using the Archive & Install option.
With the problems that you are having now, You could be unlucky enough to have a hard drive failure at the same time. With the Norton software, that might not be a coincidence.... You may need a better hard drive repair utility, such as Disk Warrior (which is good to have in any case!)

schrutebeets - May 25, 2008 - 8:45 am

thanks for the quick response...

i have tried starting and holding the shift key with no luck...

i do have an external hard drive...is there any way (besides holding option) to boot the computer using that?

if not, how do i reinstall OS X, using the Archive & Install option?

I was thinking, and another possible cause could be that there is very little space left on my hard drive. A lot of the time i get messages saying "Your startup disk is almost full." maybe this time I crashed the computer before i could get the message. Could that cause a problem like the one i am having?

DeltaMac - May 25, 2008 - 4:00 pm

Yes, you have probably caused this problem, in addition to the Norton difficulties. When you get a low disk space warning, you should NOT choose to ignore it. OS X requires a certain amount of free space on the hard drive, and you can have massive directory corruption at some point, if you choose to ignore the problem. You also won't have enough space on the hard drive to do that Archive & Install, as it will need 3-5 GB of space just to do that. The low space warning happens when you go below about 300 MB! space free.
Is your external drive FireWire? That's great, because you can boot to your installer DVD, and choose that hard drive for the install. Boot to that drive, and then you can move large files to your external drive. Don't forget to delete those files from your internal drive after you have copied them off. Empty your trash, so the space is made available. Finally, boot back to your internal drive, and you should be OK. I made it simple, as you will need several hours. Be patient.

schrutebeets - May 25, 2008 - 10:13 pm

thanks again for the response...just a few more questions...

the external hard drive is USB, does that make a difference?

also, im not sure i have and installer DVD, i know i have two installer CD's, but i dont think i have a DVD.

i know i should know how to do this but seeing ive never done it before how can i "boot to your installer DVD, and choose that hard drive for the install." i might need it step by step. thank you so much for your help, hopefully, once i get the final step towards booting the computer, i can take the necessary steps to avoid having the problem ever occur again. thanks!

DeltaMac - May 25, 2008 - 10:34 pm

An external USB is OK for storage, but you can't use it as a boot drive on an older (PowerPC) Mac, such as your G4 mini.
So, the basic steps to do that don't apply in your situation.
Your restore disks will be DVDs, as CDs don't have enough storage space for newer operating systems. For example, the Tiger commercial install set on DVD is just one DVD. The same install on CDs requires 4 or 5 CDs.
So, what do you do now?
You need to reinstall your operating system, but you can't do that because you don't have enough free space. You can't clean up your drive simply by booting to your installer disk - unless you want to cut your losses, and just erase your hard drive, and restore your original system + software. You lose everything that's not backed up, and you end up with a working system, the same as it originally shipped.
Or, purchase a FireWire external hard drive, and install your system on THAT, and when you boot to THAT drive, you can do whatever you like with the files on your internal hard drive.
What's your choice? I can't decide for you, i can only give you some facts, and some recommendations here....
- Dale

schrutebeets - May 26, 2008 - 4:07 pm

Thanks Dale, i was lucky enough to find out that my dad has a firewire external hard drive that he will let me use. All i need now are the steps to boot through that and sweet back to my original drive once I am logged on. Once again, thanks for sticking with me on this one...

DeltaMac - May 26, 2008 - 5:40 pm

The steps are simple.
Boot to your installer disk, with that FireWire attached. Choose that drive to install the system.
When the install completes, you will be booted to that external drive. Setup a user, your choice, and you can then browse to your internal drive, finding the large files that you need to move. Your goal is to end up with more than 10GB of free space on your internal hard drive, or more than 15%, if you want to figure it that way.
Let me know how it goes....
= Dale

schrutebeets - May 26, 2008 - 9:12 pm

not successful yet. i tried pugging the FireWire drive into the computer and then starting the computer and holding the "c" key. the screen is gray for about a minute then goes black and comes back with the flashing question mark. i also tried holding the "option" key, but still no drives were available to boot from. the FireWire drive has 6.16 GB of available space which should be enough. right? also, is it worth it to try CD #2 even though it says "Includes Mac OS 9.2" on it when i want OSX? i feel like i might be doing something wrong. i know the FireWire drive is turned on and all that. what could i possibly try at this point?

schrutebeets - May 26, 2008 - 10:01 pm

not successful yet. i tried pugging the FireWire drive into the computer and then starting the computer and holding the "c" key. the screen is gray for about a minute then goes black and comes back with the flashing question mark. i also tried holding the "option" key, but still no drives were available to boot from. the FireWire drive has 6.16 GB of available space which should be enough. right? also, is it worth it to try CD #2 even though it says "Includes Mac OS 9.2" on it when i want OSX? i feel like i might be doing something wrong. i know the FireWire drive is turned on and all that. what could i possibly try at this point?

DeltaMac - May 26, 2008 - 10:02 pm

The C key is used for booting to a CD, such as the OS X installer DVD. You want the original disk (the one labeled #1) as the disk #2 will not boot your mini. It's only use is to install some of the 'extra' software, such as the Classic (OS 9) system. It's not going to help you with your problem, so you need disk #1.
So, boot to that disk #1. You should see the name of that disk, if you boot while holding the Option key. Do you? Or, do you see only the 2 arrows, and no other disks at all?
If that's what you get - which is basically nothing - possibly your hard drive has failed, so you should have the mini repaired (replacing the hard drive)
OR, (a good choice, here) purchase Disk Warrior, and attempt a repair of the hard drive. I think you will need that. It's very good software to have. You have a bad problem, probably the fault of that Disk Doctor. If you can't boot any other way, Disk Warrior is your best chance....
- Dale
btw - 6 GB of space is not very much when you still need to install an operating system. Tiger takes up 2-3GB. Then, where are you going to move your files? You need to make space on your original hard drive, and (less than) 4GB is probably not going to be enough space.
I don't need to tell you that you have some choices to make, eh?
Well, let me know how I can help you...
- Dale