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Question Profile
| DATE | May 7, 2007 |
| TICKET | #334137 |
| STATUS | Closed |
| SUBJECT | Mac OS 10.4.9 Problems? |
| CAT | Computers, Operating Systems, Applications or Connected Devices |
| TYPE | Operating System Features, Bugs and Problems |
| DESC | Apple |
| DESC | 10.4.X (Tiger) |
| PLATFORM | Apple Macintosh (PowerPC G3,G4,G5) |
| MODEL | Mac Mini |
| PROC | 1.42 GHz |
| RAM | 1 GB |
| DRIVE | 80 |
| NAME | Jeff |
| USERNAME | jrbehm |
| TECHNICAL | Little Experience |
| ISSUE | Some Troubleshooting |
Question Details
TICKET ARCHIVE -> Mac OS 10.4.9 Problems?
jrbehm - May 7, 2007 - 3:23 pm
It may be my imagination, but is 10.4.9 more prone to freezes and other issues than 10.4.8? Ever since I installed .9, my G4 mini and G5 iMac both have frequent stalls and freezes. I've run disk utility from a disk as well as from the HD on both, but nothing seems to fix this for long.
If others are experiencing this, have you also had issues with Safari? It sometimes seems as if quitting Safari will ease the problem, but that could be coincidence. Whatever the cause,I'm getting really fed up with the constant work stoppage.
Is it better for me to go back to .8 at this point? Is .9 more for the Intel machines? If a reinstall of .8 is advisable, what suggestions do you have for the downgrade?
Mac Mini - 80GB, 1.42Mhz, 10 GB free space, 1GB RAM
G5 iMac - 250GB, 1.8Mhz, 130GB free space, 1.5GB RAM
Thanks,
Jeff Behm
If others are experiencing this, have you also had issues with Safari? It sometimes seems as if quitting Safari will ease the problem, but that could be coincidence. Whatever the cause,I'm getting really fed up with the constant work stoppage.
Is it better for me to go back to .8 at this point? Is .9 more for the Intel machines? If a reinstall of .8 is advisable, what suggestions do you have for the downgrade?
Mac Mini - 80GB, 1.42Mhz, 10 GB free space, 1GB RAM
G5 iMac - 250GB, 1.8Mhz, 130GB free space, 1.5GB RAM
Thanks,
Jeff Behm
vinko - May 8, 2007 - 1:15 am
Dear Jeff,
My name is Vinko and I will attempt to assist you.
Please note that with every system upgrade there may be third party applications that did not follow Apple's instructions on building applications. Therefore, these application would cause problems when Apple releases new versions of the Mac OS.
I suggest you go your System Preferences --> Accounts preferences, then to the Login Items tab. You will see a list of applications that are started (executed) when you boot up your Mac. Three applications you see will are: "iTunesHelper", "System Events" and "iCalAlarmScheduler". There may be others.
One or more of these other applications may be the cause of your problem. Before you start removing them one at a time, you may want to go to each respective application developers' site and see if they have newer / updated versions of their applications.
Another thing to ensure you've done before you attempt the suggestion below. You will want to make sure that all your Apple applications are up to date. You want to execute the "Software Updates..." until it does not have any other updates for you including after any restarts that it may ask you to do.
Aside from the three applications listed above, you will want to remove one item at a time from the Login Items list to see if your situation improves.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for using MacOSX.Com's free Mac support.
My name is Vinko and I will attempt to assist you.
Please note that with every system upgrade there may be third party applications that did not follow Apple's instructions on building applications. Therefore, these application would cause problems when Apple releases new versions of the Mac OS.
I suggest you go your System Preferences --> Accounts preferences, then to the Login Items tab. You will see a list of applications that are started (executed) when you boot up your Mac. Three applications you see will are: "iTunesHelper", "System Events" and "iCalAlarmScheduler". There may be others.
One or more of these other applications may be the cause of your problem. Before you start removing them one at a time, you may want to go to each respective application developers' site and see if they have newer / updated versions of their applications.
Another thing to ensure you've done before you attempt the suggestion below. You will want to make sure that all your Apple applications are up to date. You want to execute the "Software Updates..." until it does not have any other updates for you including after any restarts that it may ask you to do.
Aside from the three applications listed above, you will want to remove one item at a time from the Login Items list to see if your situation improves.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for using MacOSX.Com's free Mac support.
jrbehm - May 9, 2007 - 2:22 pm
Vinko,
Thanks for your reply on the 7th. I've been out of town until today, so am just getting to you now.
I looked into the suggestions you made, and found that only the Pantone Huey was in my Log-ins prefs. Taking it out doesn't seem to affect anything. I have nothing in the Software Update except the latest Security Update and Quicktime. I'm always a little suspect of the Security UPdates due to the number of issues that often follow, so haven't yet installed that, or the QuickTime update. Everything else is up to date.
Still suffering those massive slowdowns, too. I re-ran Disk Utility from the install DVD and it may have accomplsihed a little bit, but it doesn't last very long at all - perhaps a few hours at best.
Is there any substantive difference that you're seeing between 10.4.8 and .9? I'm thinking about downgrading to see if it resloves the issues.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Thanks for your reply on the 7th. I've been out of town until today, so am just getting to you now.
I looked into the suggestions you made, and found that only the Pantone Huey was in my Log-ins prefs. Taking it out doesn't seem to affect anything. I have nothing in the Software Update except the latest Security Update and Quicktime. I'm always a little suspect of the Security UPdates due to the number of issues that often follow, so haven't yet installed that, or the QuickTime update. Everything else is up to date.
Still suffering those massive slowdowns, too. I re-ran Disk Utility from the install DVD and it may have accomplsihed a little bit, but it doesn't last very long at all - perhaps a few hours at best.
Is there any substantive difference that you're seeing between 10.4.8 and .9? I'm thinking about downgrading to see if it resloves the issues.
Thanks again,
Jeff
vinko - May 9, 2007 - 4:25 pm
Dear Jeff,
Thank you for your reply.
Hold on a second, i thought you said you had "freezes" and "stalls", by that I assumed you had problem with your System getting stuck and had to reboot to gain use of your Mac again.
Now you are referring to your problem as "... massive slowdowns", by that I assume you mean that your system is busy doing something in the background without your control.
This may be the result of your Spotlight performing indexing of your hard drive.
I often recommend users to disable as many of the file types as possible within the Spotlight Preferences. You do so by unchecking the desired types (ie. Fonts, Music, Movies, etc.), from within the Spotlight Preferences.
You may also want to add the Application folder to the "Privacy" list.
Do you have an external drive connected to your Mac? If so, Spotlight may be indexing that also.
I do not recommend you downgrade. Doing so is a major task and will require you to wipe your drive and reinstall from either your original OS disk that came with your Mac or a full version of Mac OS X.
BTW: NEVER use the Disk Utility from the one Mac OS X version on a disk that have another version of Mac OS X installed. I presume that the "install DVD" you referred to was either the original Install DVD that came with your Mac or the full version of Mac OS X. That would not be the version you have currently installed (10.4.9) in your hard drive.
One other thing to try to after you have eliminated the Spotlight indexing as the culprit. You can download the Combo Updater for Mac OS 10.4.9 (for your version of your Mac. I see you say that you have a PowerPC Mac Mini, so you need the PowerPC version. If that is not correct you will need to choose the Intel version.), then reapply the update.
By reapplying the Mac OS X Update using the Combo Updater you will have replaced any corrupted files or overridden files (by 3rd party applications) in your system.
PS: do apply the QuickTime and Security Update as soon as possible. These updates have corrected many fairly serious security bugs.
I had been using 10.4.9 since its launch on 3 different Macs and I had not encounter similar problems.
I hope this helps.
-- Vinko
Thank you for your reply.
Hold on a second, i thought you said you had "freezes" and "stalls", by that I assumed you had problem with your System getting stuck and had to reboot to gain use of your Mac again.
Now you are referring to your problem as "... massive slowdowns", by that I assume you mean that your system is busy doing something in the background without your control.
This may be the result of your Spotlight performing indexing of your hard drive.
I often recommend users to disable as many of the file types as possible within the Spotlight Preferences. You do so by unchecking the desired types (ie. Fonts, Music, Movies, etc.), from within the Spotlight Preferences.
You may also want to add the Application folder to the "Privacy" list.
Do you have an external drive connected to your Mac? If so, Spotlight may be indexing that also.
I do not recommend you downgrade. Doing so is a major task and will require you to wipe your drive and reinstall from either your original OS disk that came with your Mac or a full version of Mac OS X.
BTW: NEVER use the Disk Utility from the one Mac OS X version on a disk that have another version of Mac OS X installed. I presume that the "install DVD" you referred to was either the original Install DVD that came with your Mac or the full version of Mac OS X. That would not be the version you have currently installed (10.4.9) in your hard drive.
One other thing to try to after you have eliminated the Spotlight indexing as the culprit. You can download the Combo Updater for Mac OS 10.4.9 (for your version of your Mac. I see you say that you have a PowerPC Mac Mini, so you need the PowerPC version. If that is not correct you will need to choose the Intel version.), then reapply the update.
By reapplying the Mac OS X Update using the Combo Updater you will have replaced any corrupted files or overridden files (by 3rd party applications) in your system.
PS: do apply the QuickTime and Security Update as soon as possible. These updates have corrected many fairly serious security bugs.
I had been using 10.4.9 since its launch on 3 different Macs and I had not encounter similar problems.
I hope this helps.
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 11:00 am
Vinko,
I apologize if I misused terminology (freeze, stall, massive slowdown). I'm extremely competent in the software I use, but not in the OS per se.
What has begun to happen involves more than any one application and includes Photoshop, Lightroom, MYOB FirstEdge, Safari, Mail, Firefox and Appleworks. These are my most commonly used apps, so of course I see issues there.
What happens, happens in both my G4 Mac Mini and the G5 iMac (both, obviously Power PC) and to my senses, can be described by any of the 3 terms used above.
An image of 20MB, no real drain on system, will suddenly generate the spinning beach ball for multiple minutes - 3, 5 or more. Meanwhile, Photoshop is effectively offline for the duration and sometimes all other applications are as well. Other times I can access other open apps. I'm not sure what determines the difference, or I'd tell you. Under normal circumstances I can manipulate images of between 100-500MB with very reasonable speed, especially of course on the G5 iMac.
Under the worst of scenarios, I have been unable to access the Force Quit, either through the Apple Menu or from the Dock. Other times, the entire system is so slow that the simple act of drawing a box on the desktop in order to grab multiple icons is delayed by 5 to 15 seconds. Nothing at all seems to occur, then 15 seconds later, it does. This also happens in the menu at the top of teh screen. I'll select an action from the menu bar, or a folder from the left side of the folders columned view, and nothng happens for many seconds, then it does, then it terminates. If I've tried several times, it will repeat this process at huge intervals as many times as I may have unconsciously attempted it before realizing it wasn't about misaligning the mouse, but the "Curse" was back.
The list of similar performance issues is quite long, and frankly so similar to what's described above that I don't recall at the moment other things that might be of more assistance to you.
This does happen more frequently and intensely on the G4 mini, which makes a certain kind of sense, given that it's less powerful than the iMac, although teh iMac gets the most use. The G4 does also have the external HD attached - a 250 GB Mini Stacker from Newer Technologies. I think it's a 7200 RPM WD or Hitachi drive via FW. There is no external drive currently attached to the iMac, although I was contemplating a 500GB drive from the same company.
It's a shame I didn't know better, but I did run Disk Utility from the OS 10.4.0 disk I bought at my local store when it became available. As you outlined, that must not have helped since I'm running .9 now and .8 before that. It seems to me that I may have downloaded the updates via Speed Download, so they may be cached in the SD download folder. Should I reopen the 10.4.9 version in preparation to reinstall?
How do I make a Startup disk from a disk image?
If you need more, I'll provide what I can, and a little prompting through questions by you wouldn't hurt, I'm sure.
Sorry this has turned into such a mess.
Thanks,
Jeff Behm
I apologize if I misused terminology (freeze, stall, massive slowdown). I'm extremely competent in the software I use, but not in the OS per se.
What has begun to happen involves more than any one application and includes Photoshop, Lightroom, MYOB FirstEdge, Safari, Mail, Firefox and Appleworks. These are my most commonly used apps, so of course I see issues there.
What happens, happens in both my G4 Mac Mini and the G5 iMac (both, obviously Power PC) and to my senses, can be described by any of the 3 terms used above.
An image of 20MB, no real drain on system, will suddenly generate the spinning beach ball for multiple minutes - 3, 5 or more. Meanwhile, Photoshop is effectively offline for the duration and sometimes all other applications are as well. Other times I can access other open apps. I'm not sure what determines the difference, or I'd tell you. Under normal circumstances I can manipulate images of between 100-500MB with very reasonable speed, especially of course on the G5 iMac.
Under the worst of scenarios, I have been unable to access the Force Quit, either through the Apple Menu or from the Dock. Other times, the entire system is so slow that the simple act of drawing a box on the desktop in order to grab multiple icons is delayed by 5 to 15 seconds. Nothing at all seems to occur, then 15 seconds later, it does. This also happens in the menu at the top of teh screen. I'll select an action from the menu bar, or a folder from the left side of the folders columned view, and nothng happens for many seconds, then it does, then it terminates. If I've tried several times, it will repeat this process at huge intervals as many times as I may have unconsciously attempted it before realizing it wasn't about misaligning the mouse, but the "Curse" was back.
The list of similar performance issues is quite long, and frankly so similar to what's described above that I don't recall at the moment other things that might be of more assistance to you.
This does happen more frequently and intensely on the G4 mini, which makes a certain kind of sense, given that it's less powerful than the iMac, although teh iMac gets the most use. The G4 does also have the external HD attached - a 250 GB Mini Stacker from Newer Technologies. I think it's a 7200 RPM WD or Hitachi drive via FW. There is no external drive currently attached to the iMac, although I was contemplating a 500GB drive from the same company.
It's a shame I didn't know better, but I did run Disk Utility from the OS 10.4.0 disk I bought at my local store when it became available. As you outlined, that must not have helped since I'm running .9 now and .8 before that. It seems to me that I may have downloaded the updates via Speed Download, so they may be cached in the SD download folder. Should I reopen the 10.4.9 version in preparation to reinstall?
How do I make a Startup disk from a disk image?
If you need more, I'll provide what I can, and a little prompting through questions by you wouldn't hurt, I'm sure.
Sorry this has turned into such a mess.
Thanks,
Jeff Behm
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 11:03 am
Vinko,
P.S. - I used Photoshop as an example above, but the issues described are not restricted to PS. Happens in any, but especially PS, Safari, Mail, LR and Firefox
P.S. - I used Photoshop as an example above, but the issues described are not restricted to PS. Happens in any, but especially PS, Safari, Mail, LR and Firefox
vinko - May 10, 2007 - 11:51 am
Dear Jeff,
Thank you for your reply and clarifications.
Please "uninstall" the Speed Download application. If it has an uninstaller please use it to uninstall the program. This program is know to cause problem and should not be used. I understand it has very good review and rating on sites like VersionTracker.
Next, please do as I had previously advise and download the Combo Updater for your PowerPC Macs. Use the Combo Update and reapply the update on both your Macs. There is no need to reinstall Mac OS 10.4.
My normal practice is to perform the Repair Permission from within Disk Utility on your respective Macs.
Due to the Unix nature of Mac OS X, it is advisable to perform disk utility functions like "Repair Permissions" from the startup hard drive of your Mac.
If you need to create a Startup Disk you will need to install Mac OS X from the commercial version of Mac OS 10.4 you have and then apply the necessary updates via the Software Updates menu item.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for your reply and clarifications.
Please "uninstall" the Speed Download application. If it has an uninstaller please use it to uninstall the program. This program is know to cause problem and should not be used. I understand it has very good review and rating on sites like VersionTracker.
Next, please do as I had previously advise and download the Combo Updater for your PowerPC Macs. Use the Combo Update and reapply the update on both your Macs. There is no need to reinstall Mac OS 10.4.
My normal practice is to perform the Repair Permission from within Disk Utility on your respective Macs.
Due to the Unix nature of Mac OS X, it is advisable to perform disk utility functions like "Repair Permissions" from the startup hard drive of your Mac.
If you need to create a Startup Disk you will need to install Mac OS X from the commercial version of Mac OS 10.4 you have and then apply the necessary updates via the Software Updates menu item.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 12:06 pm
Vinko,
Thanks for the prompt assist! I'm preparing to remove Speed Download, but thought I'd ask if I needed to also remove the cache of downloaded items that are stored there as well. I've used SD long enough that many applications and items for which I've paid are only stored there. My hope is that I can store those in a new folder outside SD.
Once SD is gone I'll start on your other instructions.
And thank you again.
Jeff
Thanks for the prompt assist! I'm preparing to remove Speed Download, but thought I'd ask if I needed to also remove the cache of downloaded items that are stored there as well. I've used SD long enough that many applications and items for which I've paid are only stored there. My hope is that I can store those in a new folder outside SD.
Once SD is gone I'll start on your other instructions.
And thank you again.
Jeff
vinko - May 10, 2007 - 12:26 pm
Hi Jeff,
Although I had not used Speed Download myself, but I do believe that the items downloaded by Speed Download should be normal downloads supplied by the respective application developers.
BTW: are these files in .dmg, .zip and .sit formats? If so they are the normal formats that application/utility installers come in.
One other thing I am wondering about is the amount of free space on your hard drives. For example, particularly where applications like Photoshop store their cache files. Applications like Photoshop and Lightroom do function more efficiently when they have sufficient disk space for their caches.
Normally it is advisible to leave at least 10% of your hard drive free for various different cache files from both applications you use and Mac OS X.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Although I had not used Speed Download myself, but I do believe that the items downloaded by Speed Download should be normal downloads supplied by the respective application developers.
BTW: are these files in .dmg, .zip and .sit formats? If so they are the normal formats that application/utility installers come in.
One other thing I am wondering about is the amount of free space on your hard drives. For example, particularly where applications like Photoshop store their cache files. Applications like Photoshop and Lightroom do function more efficiently when they have sufficient disk space for their caches.
Normally it is advisible to leave at least 10% of your hard drive free for various different cache files from both applications you use and Mac OS X.
Regards,
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 3:00 pm
Vinko,
Yes, the files are in .dmg, .zip or .sit formats. I expect they'll be fine, I just didn't want any surprises if I was mistaken - i.e. some sort of proprietary tag after downloading via SD.
My free space should be OK - the mini has roughly 10GB of 80 and the iMac has 120GB of 250. I do have the scratch disks for Photoshop on the mini set for the external Firewire drive, simply because of it's Firewire connection and 7200 rpm disk. It seems to run PS faster than scratch disks on computer drive, although that could be imaginary - I have nothing to back it up.
As extra info, the mini has 1GB RAM and the iMac has 1.5GB.
Thanks,
Jeff
Yes, the files are in .dmg, .zip or .sit formats. I expect they'll be fine, I just didn't want any surprises if I was mistaken - i.e. some sort of proprietary tag after downloading via SD.
My free space should be OK - the mini has roughly 10GB of 80 and the iMac has 120GB of 250. I do have the scratch disks for Photoshop on the mini set for the external Firewire drive, simply because of it's Firewire connection and 7200 rpm disk. It seems to run PS faster than scratch disks on computer drive, although that could be imaginary - I have nothing to back it up.
As extra info, the mini has 1GB RAM and the iMac has 1.5GB.
Thanks,
Jeff
vinko - May 10, 2007 - 3:56 pm
Dear Jeff,
Thank you for the update.
With Mac OS 10.4.x 1GB of RAM is the minimum RAM needed to keep Mac OS X running speedily. Although, if you are manipulating 20MB to 500MB files in Photoshop you are really taxing your system. Especially for applications like Photoshop. Which will cause it to use scratch disk and various cache files to keep up with you. Initially when you begin to manipulate these files Photoshop has yet to fill its scratch disk or cache files, but when you start to collect History items these cache files will fill up quick quickly.
Unfortunately, for the Mac mini, there are nothing more you can do since you had already maxed out its RAM capacity.
For the iMac you may want to consider replacing one ot its 512MB with a 1GB RAM chip. Be sure you have the correct speed chips for the iMac (PC3200 chips).
BTW: were these RAM installed by Apple? Or did you upgrade it yourself aftermarket? If it is the latter you want to make sure the RAMs are the correct speed. The Mac mini requires 184 pins PC2700 DDR333 chips but it will also take the PC3200 as in iMac, except the Mac mini will not run the RAM at the PC3200's maximum speed of 400MHz.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for the update.
With Mac OS 10.4.x 1GB of RAM is the minimum RAM needed to keep Mac OS X running speedily. Although, if you are manipulating 20MB to 500MB files in Photoshop you are really taxing your system. Especially for applications like Photoshop. Which will cause it to use scratch disk and various cache files to keep up with you. Initially when you begin to manipulate these files Photoshop has yet to fill its scratch disk or cache files, but when you start to collect History items these cache files will fill up quick quickly.
Unfortunately, for the Mac mini, there are nothing more you can do since you had already maxed out its RAM capacity.
For the iMac you may want to consider replacing one ot its 512MB with a 1GB RAM chip. Be sure you have the correct speed chips for the iMac (PC3200 chips).
BTW: were these RAM installed by Apple? Or did you upgrade it yourself aftermarket? If it is the latter you want to make sure the RAMs are the correct speed. The Mac mini requires 184 pins PC2700 DDR333 chips but it will also take the PC3200 as in iMac, except the Mac mini will not run the RAM at the PC3200's maximum speed of 400MHz.
Regards,
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 4:16 pm
Vinko,
Maybe I should go backwards to 10.3.9 or 10.2.8 on the mini? LOL...I must have missed the 1GB warning on 10.4 .... ah well.
Seriously, would going down a couple levels on the mini make a big difference? If so, I will. I now run PS and LR on the G5 for sorting, etc, plus initial adjustments, then finish color correction on the mini before sending to my Epson 4000 printers or burning for labs. The mini runs the color corrected monitor and printers. This workflow seriously reduces the load as far as having large files and lots of history open on the mini. Only the final stages of color correction get done there.
All the RAM is Apple RAM, having run into trouble sometime ago on a G3 tower with A/M RAM
I think I may be about ready to start with the chnages on the iMAc soon. I just had some work to accomplish before I could.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Jeff
Maybe I should go backwards to 10.3.9 or 10.2.8 on the mini? LOL...I must have missed the 1GB warning on 10.4 .... ah well.
Seriously, would going down a couple levels on the mini make a big difference? If so, I will. I now run PS and LR on the G5 for sorting, etc, plus initial adjustments, then finish color correction on the mini before sending to my Epson 4000 printers or burning for labs. The mini runs the color corrected monitor and printers. This workflow seriously reduces the load as far as having large files and lots of history open on the mini. Only the final stages of color correction get done there.
All the RAM is Apple RAM, having run into trouble sometime ago on a G3 tower with A/M RAM
I think I may be about ready to start with the chnages on the iMAc soon. I just had some work to accomplish before I could.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Jeff
jrbehm - May 10, 2007 - 5:07 pm
Vinko,
I MUST have missed the 1GB note - it just dawned on me that my G4 Powerbook is running at least 10.4.8! It's a 12" 867Mhz, 640 MB RAM machine, and I'll bet it's strraining every nerve and I didn't even know it!
I know you said don't bother downgrading in an earlier note, but should I maybe take the Powerbook back to something like 10.2.8?
Sorry for the chaos.
Jeff
I MUST have missed the 1GB note - it just dawned on me that my G4 Powerbook is running at least 10.4.8! It's a 12" 867Mhz, 640 MB RAM machine, and I'll bet it's strraining every nerve and I didn't even know it!
I know you said don't bother downgrading in an earlier note, but should I maybe take the Powerbook back to something like 10.2.8?
Sorry for the chaos.
Jeff
vinko - May 11, 2007 - 12:31 am
Hi Jeff,
Wow... you do have a few Macs, and you do use these Mac for professional purpose.
My recommendation to most users who use their Macs for professional purpose and not a developer, is to leave everything as is except for the respective Apple updates (ie. Security Updates for the respective version of OS you have installed, QuickTime, etc.) other than Mac OS upgrades.
Apple never says that the user needs 1GB of RAM to run Mac OS 10.4, but in practice that it is more efficient to give Mac OS 10.4 Macintoshs at least 1GB of RAM. I believe the minimum or recommended RAM for Mac OS 10.4 is 512MB.
I think you may want to change both the PowerBook and Mac mini to 10.3.x. To do so will require you to reinstall everything from scratch.
Yes, there is a piece mill way to downgrade, but the steps involve, especially for a non-technical person is too complicate to be worth while.
One other thing you may consider is the size of file you use and the applications you use them on. The reason I say this is because both the Mac mini and the iMac you have are low consumer level machines and hence their video capabilities are not the best for your needs. You definitely want to give your Mac as much RAM and scratch disk as possible.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Wow... you do have a few Macs, and you do use these Mac for professional purpose.
My recommendation to most users who use their Macs for professional purpose and not a developer, is to leave everything as is except for the respective Apple updates (ie. Security Updates for the respective version of OS you have installed, QuickTime, etc.) other than Mac OS upgrades.
Apple never says that the user needs 1GB of RAM to run Mac OS 10.4, but in practice that it is more efficient to give Mac OS 10.4 Macintoshs at least 1GB of RAM. I believe the minimum or recommended RAM for Mac OS 10.4 is 512MB.
I think you may want to change both the PowerBook and Mac mini to 10.3.x. To do so will require you to reinstall everything from scratch.
Yes, there is a piece mill way to downgrade, but the steps involve, especially for a non-technical person is too complicate to be worth while.
One other thing you may consider is the size of file you use and the applications you use them on. The reason I say this is because both the Mac mini and the iMac you have are low consumer level machines and hence their video capabilities are not the best for your needs. You definitely want to give your Mac as much RAM and scratch disk as possible.
Regards,
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 11, 2007 - 10:58 am
Vinko,
Many thanks for your patience throughout what must be a low tech set of problems for you. A couple more questions and I hope I'll be able to close this out.
First, the changes you suggested have resulted in surprising speed increases on both the mini and iMac. Although I've only done some minor things thus far, it's noticeably smoother. Well done, walking me through that.
If I decide to downgrade to 10.3.9 for the Powerbook or mini, what specifically should I look for? I do have the complete 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9 packages in my archived downloads, but the rest are updates only, which makes me wary of how to proceed. I've done a search on Apple's Knowledge Base page, but was confused by the multiple options available. Could you please include a link to your suggested download? I'm inclined to downgrade only the PowerBook to start, and see if I need to follow up with the mini. There's a lot on the mini that I'd rather not risk, back-ups not withstanding.
Finally, how best to proceed? If I remove 10.4.9 from the laptop, how do I reconfigure that drive with the downloaded 10.3.x?
With my WiFi network or a Firewire connection, can I drag the Powerbook's entire HD icon to another HD big enough to take it, then erase the drive and install 10.3.9? Can I then just drag the HD icon back, or what do you recommend? If I have 10.3 on the laptop and 10.4 on a "master", can I use the software that comes up when I buy a new computer and everything gets transferred, or will the downgrade mess with the success?
Many thanks again,
Jeff
Many thanks for your patience throughout what must be a low tech set of problems for you. A couple more questions and I hope I'll be able to close this out.
First, the changes you suggested have resulted in surprising speed increases on both the mini and iMac. Although I've only done some minor things thus far, it's noticeably smoother. Well done, walking me through that.
If I decide to downgrade to 10.3.9 for the Powerbook or mini, what specifically should I look for? I do have the complete 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9 packages in my archived downloads, but the rest are updates only, which makes me wary of how to proceed. I've done a search on Apple's Knowledge Base page, but was confused by the multiple options available. Could you please include a link to your suggested download? I'm inclined to downgrade only the PowerBook to start, and see if I need to follow up with the mini. There's a lot on the mini that I'd rather not risk, back-ups not withstanding.
Finally, how best to proceed? If I remove 10.4.9 from the laptop, how do I reconfigure that drive with the downloaded 10.3.x?
With my WiFi network or a Firewire connection, can I drag the Powerbook's entire HD icon to another HD big enough to take it, then erase the drive and install 10.3.9? Can I then just drag the HD icon back, or what do you recommend? If I have 10.3 on the laptop and 10.4 on a "master", can I use the software that comes up when I buy a new computer and everything gets transferred, or will the downgrade mess with the success?
Many thanks again,
Jeff
vinko - May 11, 2007 - 1:10 pm
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your reply and compliments.
Which of my suggestions had you performed, that resulted in apparent speed improvements? I just need to know so that I can imagine what state your computers are at.
As for downgrading. You need a CD/DVD with Mac OS 10.3 on it to be able to perform the downgrade from 10.4.9 to 10.3.x. I am not sure what you mean by "do have the complete 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9 packages in my archived downloads...". Since, any versions of Mac OS X you download from Apple are only Upgrades of the "full" version.
I presume that original System disk that came with your PowerBook was not Mac OS X, so how did you bring your PowerBook to 10.4? Did it ever run Mac OS 10.3? If so, you must have Mac OS 10.3 at one point. Use that disk to reinstall the PowerBook's internal hard drive to 10.3. You may want to use the Installer's "Archive & Install" option, but since you are downgrading I would not suggest you do so.
To keep a backup of the content of the PowerBook I would suggest you use something like "" to make a complete image of your PowerBook's internal hard drive.
I do not suggest you drag over any content from this "mirrored" backup other than documents and image files. To be save you will need to reinstall all applications. So before you downgrade you need to make sure you have the installer for all your applications and serial number / activation codes.
If you purchase from iTunes, you may want to deactivate your iTunes Store access from your PowerBook's iTunes before you downgrade.
Don't bother with WiFi transfer of your content, it is too slow. If you can connect the backup drive to your PowerBook via Firewire to perform the backup.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for your reply and compliments.
Which of my suggestions had you performed, that resulted in apparent speed improvements? I just need to know so that I can imagine what state your computers are at.
As for downgrading. You need a CD/DVD with Mac OS 10.3 on it to be able to perform the downgrade from 10.4.9 to 10.3.x. I am not sure what you mean by "do have the complete 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9 packages in my archived downloads...". Since, any versions of Mac OS X you download from Apple are only Upgrades of the "full" version.
I presume that original System disk that came with your PowerBook was not Mac OS X, so how did you bring your PowerBook to 10.4? Did it ever run Mac OS 10.3? If so, you must have Mac OS 10.3 at one point. Use that disk to reinstall the PowerBook's internal hard drive to 10.3. You may want to use the Installer's "Archive & Install" option, but since you are downgrading I would not suggest you do so.
To keep a backup of the content of the PowerBook I would suggest you use something like "" to make a complete image of your PowerBook's internal hard drive.
I do not suggest you drag over any content from this "mirrored" backup other than documents and image files. To be save you will need to reinstall all applications. So before you downgrade you need to make sure you have the installer for all your applications and serial number / activation codes.
If you purchase from iTunes, you may want to deactivate your iTunes Store access from your PowerBook's iTunes before you downgrade.
Don't bother with WiFi transfer of your content, it is too slow. If you can connect the backup drive to your PowerBook via Firewire to perform the backup.
Regards,
-- Vinko
jrbehm - May 11, 2007 - 1:57 pm
Vinko,
Your suggestions I followed were:
1) removed the Speed Download application from both the iMac and the mini
2) used Combo Updater to update OS 10.4.9
The G4 Powerbook came with OS 10.2.3 installed. All I've done since is add upgrades as they became available. When I said earlier that I had the "complete package" I meant the Combo Updaters for 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9, which would seem to be a misuse of the term on my part.
I purchased a copy of OS 10.4 to upgrade the Powerbook when that OS came out so it would be running the same OS as the rest. I've updated to .9 since installing OS10.4 from the purchased disk.
The Mac Mini and iMac came with 10.4 installed. I've simply updated to .9 as updates were offered. That's why I was somewhat taken aback when you suggested downgrading the mini - that's how Apple shipped it to me - with 10.4.
So bottom line - the two that I've reinstalled 10.4.9 on following your instructions are working better, although not thoroughly tested yet.
I haven't done anything to the PowerBook yet, because I'm not sure how best to proceed. I can certainly reinstall 10.2.3 and update to 10.2.8, but can't get to 10.3.9 as yet.
Thanks,
Jeff
Your suggestions I followed were:
1) removed the Speed Download application from both the iMac and the mini
2) used Combo Updater to update OS 10.4.9
The G4 Powerbook came with OS 10.2.3 installed. All I've done since is add upgrades as they became available. When I said earlier that I had the "complete package" I meant the Combo Updaters for 10.2.8, 10.4.2 and 10.4.9, which would seem to be a misuse of the term on my part.
I purchased a copy of OS 10.4 to upgrade the Powerbook when that OS came out so it would be running the same OS as the rest. I've updated to .9 since installing OS10.4 from the purchased disk.
The Mac Mini and iMac came with 10.4 installed. I've simply updated to .9 as updates were offered. That's why I was somewhat taken aback when you suggested downgrading the mini - that's how Apple shipped it to me - with 10.4.
So bottom line - the two that I've reinstalled 10.4.9 on following your instructions are working better, although not thoroughly tested yet.
I haven't done anything to the PowerBook yet, because I'm not sure how best to proceed. I can certainly reinstall 10.2.3 and update to 10.2.8, but can't get to 10.3.9 as yet.
Thanks,
Jeff
vinko - May 12, 2007 - 12:45 am
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your reply and clarifications.
The reason I suggest you downgrade to 10.3.x for your Mac mini is due to your use of the computer and not due to the computer itself. Apple always installs the latest version of Mac OS on all their Macintosh computers. Although some times they do not put enough default RAM for them to be useful in real world scenarios.
As for downgrading, given your explained situation above, your only option is to downgrade to 10.2, but I would not suggest you do so, since there were many performance improvements in 10.3 to make it a much better version of Mac OS X.
Also, Combo Updaters are updates of the Mac OS X, they are NOT "full" versions of the Mac OS X therefore cannot be used to build a 10.x computer.
Having said that your best choice is to stick with 10.4 and change your workflow to accommodate the hardware you have.
Regards,
-- Vinko
Thank you for your reply and clarifications.
The reason I suggest you downgrade to 10.3.x for your Mac mini is due to your use of the computer and not due to the computer itself. Apple always installs the latest version of Mac OS on all their Macintosh computers. Although some times they do not put enough default RAM for them to be useful in real world scenarios.
As for downgrading, given your explained situation above, your only option is to downgrade to 10.2, but I would not suggest you do so, since there were many performance improvements in 10.3 to make it a much better version of Mac OS X.
Also, Combo Updaters are updates of the Mac OS X, they are NOT "full" versions of the Mac OS X therefore cannot be used to build a 10.x computer.
Having said that your best choice is to stick with 10.4 and change your workflow to accommodate the hardware you have.
Regards,
-- Vinko
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