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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Mouse & keyboard doesn't work under OS 9
tpd - May 9, 2006 - 2:55 am
I've got a doozy.
I'm an expert OS 9 user.
Problem: Keyboard and mouse won't work from any OS 9 hard disk (internal or external), but work fine with a bootable CD using OS 9 and with OS X which lives in a partition on my OS 9 startup disk. Update - keyboard and mouse now no longer work with OS 9 Install CD but do with 'Apple Hardware Test' CD.
Details below in numbered steps I took as problem persisted.
1 Mouse pointer becomes stuck in top-left corner of screen in its ‘wake up’ position after a normal reboot.
2 Rebooted with no extensions
3 No light in ‘caps lock’ key or mouse (though mouse gives a brief flicker as Mac starts)
4 Try another keyboard (hot-swap). No difference.
5 With Mac up & no extensions, press power button to reboot but screen goes dark after three seconds depression (rather than usual five seconds for a reboot).
6 Press power button again briefly and screen comes back and mouse moves properly.
7 Do proper reboot with extensions
8 Mouse stuck again and keyboard inactive with ‘caps lock’ light off and tab key ignored
9 Force restart with power button & no extensions
10 Mouse pointer still stuck at top left corner of screen
11 Press power button briefly and screen darkens and disk spins down
12 Press again and they come up again
13 Then screen & disk power down by themselves
14 Screen & disk come back at a key press – Mac is going into sleep mode which I have switched off
15 Now keyboard (inc. ‘caps lock’ light) is working perfectly but mouse is still dead.
16 Try mouse in other keyboard USB & another CPU USB port - no good
I’m firing off Word and typing this with just the keyboard which is now working
17 Tried another (working) mouse from another iMac – no difference
18 Removed power cable for 30 secs
19 When started with option key, mouse & keyboard work to select a startup disk
20 Mouse and keyboard work perfectly in OS X (but takes 4-5 mins to 'fixup' disk and close open files after forced power down, then 3-4 mins to fixup OS 9 partition
21 Doesn’t work when booted from another OS 9 partition on same disk or OS 9 on another volume
22 There seems to be something intermittent about the power button (Does pressing it for 3 secs make Mac go to sleep normally?)
23 Pressing power button to go into sleep mode then pressing a key to re-awake sometimes brings keyboard awake and sometimes the mouse, but the keyboard responds best. Rarely does the mouse respond. It also seems that sometimes Mac goes to sleep spontaneously.
24 How are software & hardware related via OS 9?
25 Sometimes a key wakes up Mac, but not always & I have to depress power button for a second or two to wake it up.
26 Started Classic to edit this document. Used 'Conflict Catcher' to invoke Base 9.2.2 set of extensions.
27 As Classic came up it said (as it has before):
Classic needs to update files in “System Folder” on “Mozart”. These files will not affect starting your computer from this system folder. Say 'yes'.
Has this fixed it? (I think it replaced extension 'Input Sprocket Classic')
No.
Every time I need to boot into OS X I have to force-shut OS 9 - and after starting OS X have to wait a few minutes while 'fix-up' closes files.
28 Classic won't run disk utilities (Disk First Aid, Norton, TechTool and DiskWarrior. (all "not supported in Classic")
DiskWarrior under OS 9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume.
29 DiskWarrior under OS X (version 3.0.3) works, however. I replaced OS 9 directory structure with it, but no difference.
30 Rebooted into OS 9 (no extensions) and keyboard works & mouse light is on (!), but no mouse movement. After unplugging and re-inserting mouse, light went out and stayed out.
31 Reboot from 'Apple Hardware Test' CD that came with Mac ('iMac version 1.2')
Ran Extended Tests with these results:
Airport - No device found
Logic Board - Passed
Mass Storage - Passed
Memory - Passed
Modem - Device found
Video RAM - Passed
Mouse & keyboard work properly when using booted CD
(To insert a CD I have to start in OS X and reboot with CD inserted, then hold down 'C' key)
32 I rebooted holding down option-Apple-P-R and let 4 chimes occur to reset PRAM
33 Continue boot after zap with no extensions. Both keyboard & mouse work!
34 I reboot (no extensions) to repeat success. Nix!
35 Reboot from Installer CD
36 Keyboard and mouse work. May as well do a new install.
Select OS 9.2.2 only then click 'Options' to select 'Update Apple Hard Disk Drivers' (though I don't suspect them).
37 Still no good. Nix! Nuts!
Back to where I began - keyboard works about 30% of the time and mouse about 5% after waking up from sleep using power button.
All reboots have been with no extensions
38 Reboot from Install CD to run Disk First Aid - but no mouse nor keyboard this time!
39 Reboot again from Install CD - still no keyboard or mouse
40 Reboot from 'Apple Hardware Test' CD & keyboard & mouse okay
Mouse still flashes briefly at startup
What firmware or software lies between the option key stratup menu and OS 9?
Any suggestions?
I'm an expert OS 9 user.
Problem: Keyboard and mouse won't work from any OS 9 hard disk (internal or external), but work fine with a bootable CD using OS 9 and with OS X which lives in a partition on my OS 9 startup disk. Update - keyboard and mouse now no longer work with OS 9 Install CD but do with 'Apple Hardware Test' CD.
Details below in numbered steps I took as problem persisted.
1 Mouse pointer becomes stuck in top-left corner of screen in its ‘wake up’ position after a normal reboot.
2 Rebooted with no extensions
3 No light in ‘caps lock’ key or mouse (though mouse gives a brief flicker as Mac starts)
4 Try another keyboard (hot-swap). No difference.
5 With Mac up & no extensions, press power button to reboot but screen goes dark after three seconds depression (rather than usual five seconds for a reboot).
6 Press power button again briefly and screen comes back and mouse moves properly.
7 Do proper reboot with extensions
8 Mouse stuck again and keyboard inactive with ‘caps lock’ light off and tab key ignored
9 Force restart with power button & no extensions
10 Mouse pointer still stuck at top left corner of screen
11 Press power button briefly and screen darkens and disk spins down
12 Press again and they come up again
13 Then screen & disk power down by themselves
14 Screen & disk come back at a key press – Mac is going into sleep mode which I have switched off
15 Now keyboard (inc. ‘caps lock’ light) is working perfectly but mouse is still dead.
16 Try mouse in other keyboard USB & another CPU USB port - no good
I’m firing off Word and typing this with just the keyboard which is now working
17 Tried another (working) mouse from another iMac – no difference
18 Removed power cable for 30 secs
19 When started with option key, mouse & keyboard work to select a startup disk
20 Mouse and keyboard work perfectly in OS X (but takes 4-5 mins to 'fixup' disk and close open files after forced power down, then 3-4 mins to fixup OS 9 partition
21 Doesn’t work when booted from another OS 9 partition on same disk or OS 9 on another volume
22 There seems to be something intermittent about the power button (Does pressing it for 3 secs make Mac go to sleep normally?)
23 Pressing power button to go into sleep mode then pressing a key to re-awake sometimes brings keyboard awake and sometimes the mouse, but the keyboard responds best. Rarely does the mouse respond. It also seems that sometimes Mac goes to sleep spontaneously.
24 How are software & hardware related via OS 9?
25 Sometimes a key wakes up Mac, but not always & I have to depress power button for a second or two to wake it up.
26 Started Classic to edit this document. Used 'Conflict Catcher' to invoke Base 9.2.2 set of extensions.
27 As Classic came up it said (as it has before):
Classic needs to update files in “System Folder” on “Mozart”. These files will not affect starting your computer from this system folder. Say 'yes'.
Has this fixed it? (I think it replaced extension 'Input Sprocket Classic')
No.
Every time I need to boot into OS X I have to force-shut OS 9 - and after starting OS X have to wait a few minutes while 'fix-up' closes files.
28 Classic won't run disk utilities (Disk First Aid, Norton, TechTool and DiskWarrior. (all "not supported in Classic")
DiskWarrior under OS 9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume.
29 DiskWarrior under OS X (version 3.0.3) works, however. I replaced OS 9 directory structure with it, but no difference.
30 Rebooted into OS 9 (no extensions) and keyboard works & mouse light is on (!), but no mouse movement. After unplugging and re-inserting mouse, light went out and stayed out.
31 Reboot from 'Apple Hardware Test' CD that came with Mac ('iMac version 1.2')
Ran Extended Tests with these results:
Airport - No device found
Logic Board - Passed
Mass Storage - Passed
Memory - Passed
Modem - Device found
Video RAM - Passed
Mouse & keyboard work properly when using booted CD
(To insert a CD I have to start in OS X and reboot with CD inserted, then hold down 'C' key)
32 I rebooted holding down option-Apple-P-R and let 4 chimes occur to reset PRAM
33 Continue boot after zap with no extensions. Both keyboard & mouse work!
34 I reboot (no extensions) to repeat success. Nix!
35 Reboot from Installer CD
36 Keyboard and mouse work. May as well do a new install.
Select OS 9.2.2 only then click 'Options' to select 'Update Apple Hard Disk Drivers' (though I don't suspect them).
37 Still no good. Nix! Nuts!
Back to where I began - keyboard works about 30% of the time and mouse about 5% after waking up from sleep using power button.
All reboots have been with no extensions
38 Reboot from Install CD to run Disk First Aid - but no mouse nor keyboard this time!
39 Reboot again from Install CD - still no keyboard or mouse
40 Reboot from 'Apple Hardware Test' CD & keyboard & mouse okay
Mouse still flashes briefly at startup
What firmware or software lies between the option key stratup menu and OS 9?
Any suggestions?
nhmac - May 10, 2006 - 7:33 am
OK, first of all when describing this I wouldn't call it "mouse and keyboard don't work." What you are describing sounds to me like system crashes.
Now let's go back a bit: what Mac is this? How much RAM do you have? What version of X are you running? And how is the disk partitioned?
When you say "DiskWarrior under OS 9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume" that is causing me not to be sure you have actual separate partitions for 9 and X, because if your disk is partitioned DW for 9 should run fine in that situation.
--Beverly
Now let's go back a bit: what Mac is this? How much RAM do you have? What version of X are you running? And how is the disk partitioned?
When you say "DiskWarrior under OS 9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume" that is causing me not to be sure you have actual separate partitions for 9 and X, because if your disk is partitioned DW for 9 should run fine in that situation.
--Beverly
tpd - May 10, 2006 - 6:25 pm
Beverly, thank you for your comments.
I’ll respond to them in sequence.
They’re not system crashes. I know a system crash when I see one, though these days I get very few because I’m au fait with all my extensions and their individual idiosyncrasies. My keyboard still intermittently works, and no extensions are running, so it’s not a system crash. I know it’s hardware-related because I watch the lights come on in the mouse (‘Pro Mouse’) and the keyboard ‘caps lock’ key. When a Mac starts, it says ‘hello’ to the mouse and the light flashes brightly a couple of times, goes out then comes on and remains on during the startup process. (Curiously, the light remains bright during a system X startup, but dim during a 9 startup.) When I start, the mouse does it’s initial ‘hello’ flash and then goes out. That’s how I know it’s hardware-related.
I wasn’t clear in the comment between points 28 and 29. I said “DiskWarrior under OS9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume.” I meant to use the word ‘Classic’ instead of ‘OS9’. In point 28 I am running under Classic. Sorry, but my log of the problem was intended for my eyes only and I didn’t expect to have to explain it. It seems that no utility (point 28) that operates on the disk structure below the filing system will run under Classic and I suppose that’s as it should be. The exact words of OS 9 DiskWarrior running under Classic with the OS 9 partition selected for rebuild, are:
“Directory cannot be rebuilt because this disk is shared with Mac OS X.
Where: diskOs9 (Shared) Internal ATA”
It says ‘disk’ rather than partition.
My Mac is a flat-screen iMac running OS 9.2.2. My hard disk is partitioned into three partitions, one of which holds OS X 10.4.6 which I mainly use to manage my iPod. I have 512 Mb RAM and a 60 Gb drive with 50 Gb to OS 9 and 10 Gb to OS X, more or less. I boot into OS X daily by using the option key and selecting the appropriate partition, so you see, the partitions are fine. Cheers.
I’ll respond to them in sequence.
They’re not system crashes. I know a system crash when I see one, though these days I get very few because I’m au fait with all my extensions and their individual idiosyncrasies. My keyboard still intermittently works, and no extensions are running, so it’s not a system crash. I know it’s hardware-related because I watch the lights come on in the mouse (‘Pro Mouse’) and the keyboard ‘caps lock’ key. When a Mac starts, it says ‘hello’ to the mouse and the light flashes brightly a couple of times, goes out then comes on and remains on during the startup process. (Curiously, the light remains bright during a system X startup, but dim during a 9 startup.) When I start, the mouse does it’s initial ‘hello’ flash and then goes out. That’s how I know it’s hardware-related.
I wasn’t clear in the comment between points 28 and 29. I said “DiskWarrior under OS9 won't run because the startup disk holds OS X in another partition on same volume.” I meant to use the word ‘Classic’ instead of ‘OS9’. In point 28 I am running under Classic. Sorry, but my log of the problem was intended for my eyes only and I didn’t expect to have to explain it. It seems that no utility (point 28) that operates on the disk structure below the filing system will run under Classic and I suppose that’s as it should be. The exact words of OS 9 DiskWarrior running under Classic with the OS 9 partition selected for rebuild, are:
“Directory cannot be rebuilt because this disk is shared with Mac OS X.
Where: diskOs9 (Shared) Internal ATA”
It says ‘disk’ rather than partition.
My Mac is a flat-screen iMac running OS 9.2.2. My hard disk is partitioned into three partitions, one of which holds OS X 10.4.6 which I mainly use to manage my iPod. I have 512 Mb RAM and a 60 Gb drive with 50 Gb to OS 9 and 10 Gb to OS X, more or less. I boot into OS X daily by using the option key and selecting the appropriate partition, so you see, the partitions are fine. Cheers.
nhmac - May 10, 2006 - 7:26 pm
Please help me understand your partitions a little more. You have 3 partitions -- that is, your 60G hard drive shows up as 3 separate disks on your desktop and in Disk Utility? And in 1 partition you have 10.4 and 9.2, and the other partitions have no OS installed?
If this is so, then you might want to move your system 9 system folder to one of the other partitions that has no X on it, so you can troubleshoot it separately from the X file system. But before we get to doing that I'd like to get a clearer idea of what you mean, how large is each partition, etc.
--Beverly
If this is so, then you might want to move your system 9 system folder to one of the other partitions that has no X on it, so you can troubleshoot it separately from the X file system. But before we get to doing that I'd like to get a clearer idea of what you mean, how large is each partition, etc.
--Beverly
tpd - May 10, 2006 - 11:05 pm
Fast work Beverly, thank you.
As I said, I have 3 partitions. Yes, they do show up on the Desktop as separate 'disks'. One is 50 Gb and holds OS 9, another is 10 Gb and holds OS X and the last is a 1 Gb partition in which I store photos from my camera ready to be written to a CD under OS 9. Naturally, I wouldn't have OS 9 and OS X in the same partition. That wouldn't work. As I said at the beginning, I'm an OS 9 expert and know my way round a computer.
Cheers
As I said, I have 3 partitions. Yes, they do show up on the Desktop as separate 'disks'. One is 50 Gb and holds OS 9, another is 10 Gb and holds OS X and the last is a 1 Gb partition in which I store photos from my camera ready to be written to a CD under OS 9. Naturally, I wouldn't have OS 9 and OS X in the same partition. That wouldn't work. As I said at the beginning, I'm an OS 9 expert and know my way round a computer.
Cheers
nhmac - May 11, 2006 - 7:13 am
OK. Well, the first thing I would suggest is to take your OS 9 DiskWarrior CD, boot from it, and see what it says about your OS 9 partition, rebuilding the directory if necessary.
--Beverly
--Beverly
tpd - May 11, 2006 - 7:09 pm
Good suggestion.
Booting from the disk occurs in System X when the ‘C’ key is held down and offers only System X when Mac is booted with the option key. I had already rebuilt my OS 9 partition using DiskWarrior X in step 29.
Here’s what DiskWarrior says in OS X with my OS 9 partition selected:
Directory is ready to be rebuilt
This disk is a Mac OS Extended disk
This disk does appear on the desktop
This disk is 46.57 GB in size
I pressed the ‘Graph’ button rather than the ‘Rebuild’ button.
The graph that appeared was smooth from my previous rebuild.
Since DiskWarrior could mount the disk and saw no problems at the top level, I can assume that the OS 9 partition is okay, don’t you think?
Booting from the disk occurs in System X when the ‘C’ key is held down and offers only System X when Mac is booted with the option key. I had already rebuilt my OS 9 partition using DiskWarrior X in step 29.
Here’s what DiskWarrior says in OS X with my OS 9 partition selected:
Directory is ready to be rebuilt
This disk is a Mac OS Extended disk
This disk does appear on the desktop
This disk is 46.57 GB in size
I pressed the ‘Graph’ button rather than the ‘Rebuild’ button.
The graph that appeared was smooth from my previous rebuild.
Since DiskWarrior could mount the disk and saw no problems at the top level, I can assume that the OS 9 partition is okay, don’t you think?
nhmac - May 11, 2006 - 8:09 pm
OK. So did you do a full reinstall of 9 in step 36?
Beverly
Beverly
tpd - May 11, 2006 - 9:11 pm
I pressed the 'Add/Remove' button rather than the 'Reinstall' button so that I could customise the install. I selected 'Mac OS 9.2.2' and ignored the extras like Airport, Internet Access, Text0to-Speech, Langauge Kits, etc.
So yes, I did what I would call a full reinstall. I'm sure the extras aren't affecting me.
So yes, I did what I would call a full reinstall. I'm sure the extras aren't affecting me.
nhmac - May 12, 2006 - 10:18 pm
I am wondering if this could possibly be bad RAM?
Here is this very nice free memory testing utility for single user mode:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17156
and/or you could try pulling the RAM chips out one at a time and see if that makes any difference?
It is amazing how many truly weird problems bad RAM can produce, and Apple Hardware Test is not the most accurate at finding RAM problems all the time.
--Beverly
Here is this very nice free memory testing utility for single user mode:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17156
and/or you could try pulling the RAM chips out one at a time and see if that makes any difference?
It is amazing how many truly weird problems bad RAM can produce, and Apple Hardware Test is not the most accurate at finding RAM problems all the time.
--Beverly
tpd - May 14, 2006 - 1:35 am
Finally resolved the problem. I unplugged all peripherals except the keyboard and everything was okay!
Trouble traced to Swann USB hub, which I replaced and everything's fine now.
Curious thing – OS X printed through the hub, but OS 9 wouldn't see printer via the Chooser.
Thanks for assistance, Beverly.
Trouble traced to Swann USB hub, which I replaced and everything's fine now.
Curious thing – OS X printed through the hub, but OS 9 wouldn't see printer via the Chooser.
Thanks for assistance, Beverly.
nhmac - May 14, 2006 - 7:18 am
Glad you tracked it down! Hope everything works smoothly from now on!
--Beverly
--Beverly
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