TICKET ARCHIVE -> MS Word printing: Preview doesn't match the printed page
RobinS - Jul 4, 2006 - 2:59 pm
Its off by a line sometimes. Is this normal? Using OS X 10.4.6 with MS Word 2004.
RobinS - Jul 4, 2006 - 3:00 pm
Submitted this to the wrong category......sorry.
earthsaver - Jul 4, 2006 - 3:35 pm
With Word, a non-Cocoa application, that doesn't surprise me in the least. Try opening the same document in TextEdit (if it doesn't have the complexity of columns and such) and see what Preview comes up with.
- Ben
RobinS - Jul 4, 2006 - 4:24 pm
I wonder if I'm making this more difficult as I'm using almost no margins on the sides or top and bottom to conserve paper.
earthsaver - Jul 4, 2006 - 4:58 pm
That wouldn't surprise me as even printers that handle borderless photos might not like borderless text. Also, if you want, I can send you my copy of TextEdit, which is coded for half inch margins instead of the full one-inch default. (Or, I can build a new copy for you with your choice of margins, as that is one of the long time missing features in the app.)
earthsaver - Jul 4, 2006 - 4:59 pm
Speaking about difficult and wasting time, that's effectively what Word is in my experience.
RobinS - Jul 5, 2006 - 6:55 pm
What do you recommend to do the following:
An app that remembers what I set - not the usual battle with Apple apps that I usually go through. Amnesia, etc. Settings not remembered, etc.
I'm trying TexEdit but it seems like the usual battle with the Apple dictatorship. Window size is not remembered, huge margins wasting space, .........no wait....I set it up wrap to window - margins are gone.
in TextEdit when you open fonts even that window is tiny - with scroll bars....what's with scroll bars and Apple? Can they not open a window full size to show its contents? Scrolling is such a colossal waste of time and clumsy.
Even clicking the green button STILL doesn't make the vertical size full - its about half the size of my screen height and there's a vertical scroll bar. To make matters even worse, you can't drag it bigger than that. Then when you want to close it, you have to use the mouse. Escape, Command W...nothing works. You can't tab to it or away from it. Incredible. When I try to navigate around in the fonts I have to use the mouse again! No keyboard control is available. No Tabbing of course. Normally you highlight a line then use page up/down to get where you want. Dragging scroll bars? Are we in kindergarden?
So I copy and paste text from a side to side filled Word document to a new TextEdit document. You would think that it would look the same - but for whatever reason it doesn't. Is there anything I can do so it does? Or is this just software incompatibility?
New windows are tiny - maybe this is just a waste of time.
earthsaver - Jul 5, 2006 - 9:32 pm
A few things about your experience:
- I never noticed that the maximum size of the Font palette was limited. At the point of wanting to scroll less, I would search more. Also, MaxiMice prevents me from having to use the clumsy little scrollbar thumbs all the time; it activates edge-scrolling.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19148
- The Font and Colors palettes are not regular windows; they are dynamic show/hide windows. You close them by pressing the same shortcut you used to open: Command+T for Font and Shift+Command+C for Colors.
- If you're just typing and formatting text, how much time do you really need to spend in the Font palette?
How did the pasted text look different?
New windows are small because when you're just typing, you just don't need to see that much. Not until you need to see the margins and the whole page. And then, the page is not going to take up your whole screen unless you zoom in. There's just no point to maximizing the window when you're seeing the margins. If you want to see nothing else on the screen, you can Zoom to maximize the margin-free window.
And, in truth, you've got a preference for new window size, among others. Use them.
Looking for a full screen writing application? Perhaps you want WriteRoom.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/30048
RobinS - Jul 6, 2006 - 3:34 am
If I bought a program for everything that OS X and Apple apps lacks I'd spend a thousand dollars a month. I'm realizing that sometimes the way an app behaves is just not going to be compatible with some people yet with others its just fine. That was the "swimming up a river" reference I made before. Sometimes its just not worth it.
Dynamic show/hide, whatever......a window is a window......its utterly pointless having different commands for the same function. More inconsistency of Apple. NOT YOUR FAULT.
> How did the pasted text look different?
Only part of it showed up. Then there was some table on the top which I didn't put there. More of Apple dictating what it THINKS I need instead of just presenting a blank screen and let me do what I want. This OS is constantly trying to think for the user. Steve Jobs should get work in North Korea in the propaganda ministry. He'd be brilliant. Its just such a tiresome tug of war that is repeated over and over with Apple. They just don't want to relinquish much control. Its like Unix with a dictator.
>New windows are small.............
I want new windows to be full screen because in a few seconds I'm going to fill those small windows with pages and pages of stuff. That's Apple trying to think for the user again........you don't need large windows......you need small windows. Its the mentality. Plus there's no Zoom keyboard shortcut. More time wasting hopping to the mouse every few seconds.
As for the margins......I don't want to ever see margins for the time being. I want edge to edge text - no wasted space. This is something I have to configure ever time I create a new window. If not, please suggest.
Zooming does not result in full screen. Only a time wasting, tedious dragging of the lower right hand corner (after more time wasting positioning of the window in the upper left hand corner first) does. Green button = Zoom Window, right? No keyboard shortcut?
Full screen writing app? Word is good enough. At least it has some memory. Hard to believe coming from Microsoft.
I know I sound very negative - but its just sickening to see blatant flaws that could be so easily fixed. The people that want it the way it is could have it and the rest of us could configure things (that the app would actually remember!) the way we pretty much want.
TextEdit is hopeless for me. I will search for a non-Apple word processor if Word doesn't work out. But so far, it seems pretty good. Complicated yes, but perhaps its better to have more than you need. At least things are there later if you need them.
I'll delve into Pages but it seems to act very much like a typical Apple pig-headed dictator. Maybe I can bend it. I just HATE having to configure the same things over and over and over again. That is the software engineer saying "We don't care what you want."
earthsaver - Jul 6, 2006 - 7:07 am
Besides the fact that when I zoom a marginless window in TextEdit and it expands to full screen on my 15" PowerBook display (I'm zooming empty new windows; not ones with text inside already), what became of my comment about setting New Document preferences in TextEdit? The fact that you can set a new window to the specific size of your display must be comforting.
When I use Windows, I find it spends too much time trying to think for me. I'm always frustrated when I have to manually turn off Autocorrect and Autoformat settings in Word because they don't let me work the way I want to work.
Also, I don't think improving user experience requires $1000 a month; I think it just requires exploring the wealthy of freeware and shareware accessories available and finding the core set that make your computing life easier.
Finally, back to the shortcuts for Font and Colors: you get the same shortcut for showing the palette as for hiding it, just like for the Inspector in the Finder. The point is you don't have to remember one shortcut for showing a "utility window" and another for hiding it; and you watch and see show and hide change dynamically in the menu, depending on the current state of the window.
earthsaver - Jul 6, 2006 - 7:17 am
I've been using MaxiMice for years and it's received phenomenal reviews on VersionTracker. Even better, it continues to work with new OS versions, even after not having been revised now for three years.
At only $10, I think it's a worthy investment for anyone frustrated with the need to use scroll bars. Add to that the ability to move windows without having to mouse up to the title bar.
(If you're still upset, you might just have to invest in a mouse with a scroll wheel of some sort. I've been resistant to them so far and I'm still content with a one button mouse (plus SideTrack for my trackpad).
earthsaver - Jul 6, 2006 - 7:21 am
For free ability to move or resize a window without mousing specifically to the title bar or resize thumb, there's the free application enhancer, Window Dragon:
"WindowDragon was created because it is often inconvenient to click on a window's title bar or resize button to move and resize windows. WindowDragon allows a window's entire structure to be used as move or resize zone. In other words, WindowDragon makes it possible to move or resize a window by clicking anywhere within that window.
"Additionally, WindowDragon allows you to resize a window from any corner, and it allows you to drag all of an application's windows in tandem."
RobinS - Jul 6, 2006 - 12:11 pm
> Besides the fact that when I zoom a marginless window in TextEdit and it expands to full screen on my 15" PowerBook display (I'm zooming empty new windows; not ones with text inside already), what became of my comment about setting New Document preferences in TextEdit? The fact that you can set a new window to the specific size of your display must be comforting.
Every time I open a new window in TextEdit its small. I have to Zoom it and click Wrap to Window. There is no way of having this layout as the Default? In Preferences it shows me how to Restore Defaults but there doesn't seem to be anything enabling Save As Default.
> When I use Windows, I find it spends too much time trying to think for me. I'm always frustrated when I have to manually turn off Autocorrect and Autoformat settings in Word because they don't let me work the way I want to work.
Yes - that is the same for me. I have almost everything turned off Word that I can. Then when I need something I turn it on after I know what it does. They should definitely have things turned off by default, but it only takes a minute or so to "uncheck" everything, now that I've done it a few times. If I'm not sure, I kill it.
> Also, I don't think improving user experience requires $1000 a month; I think it just requires exploring the wealthy of freeware and shareware accessories available and finding the core set that make your computing life easier.
But Shareware is costly! $10, $20, $30 everyday can really mount up. Most of the questions I ask here end up with the answer....go to Version Tracker and buy something to do the job the way you want it. And often its only a few features lacking in the Apple product. Features that are wanted by many others as well, evidenced by Googling.
> Finally, back to the shortcuts for Font and Colors: you get the same shortcut for showing the palette as for hiding it, just like for the Inspector in the Finder. The point is you don't have to remember one shortcut for showing a "utility window" and another for hiding it; and you watch and see show and hide change dynamically in the menu, depending on the current state of the window.
OK - I'm not going to change anything by complaining.
> I've been using MaxiMice for years and it's received phenomenal reviews on VersionTracker. Even better, it continues to work with new OS versions, even after not having been revised now for three years.
At only $10, I think it's a worthy investment for anyone frustrated with the need to use scroll bars. Add to that the ability to move windows without having to mouse up to the title bar.
(If you're still upset, you might just have to invest in a mouse with a scroll wheel of some sort. I've been resistant to them so far and I'm still content with a one button mouse (plus SideTrack for my trackpad).
I use a Microsoft Trackball Explorer; 5 programmable buttons with the MS Intellipoint software so wheels and mice are fine with me. I'll check out MaxiMice to see if it offers anything the MS software doesn't.
I'll look into WindowDragon. Maybe Apple leaves out these features and then sets up companies selling the software! What a conspiracy! lol....
earthsaver - Jul 6, 2006 - 3:15 pm
I don't think I need to respond to anything but TextEdit any longer.
- TextEdit Preferences very clearly have a checkbox for Wrap to Page; if you uncheck it, all new windows are wrapped to window.
- TextEdit Preferences very clearly allow you to set the width and height of new windows. OK, not in pixels as one would expect, but… I have experimented for you, Robin.
Instead of 75 characters wide, try 209 characters for 1280 pixels wide. Try 83 or 84 lines for 1024 pixels high. Don't forget you can choose whether the ruler displays by default (if you want to save more screen real estate), and have Command+R to show/hide it.
RobinS - Jul 6, 2006 - 8:15 pm
I'll try it........thanks again. I see what you mean - you have to manually set the screen size. But when I set it to different sizes it doesn't seem to make a difference. I still have to zoom the window each time. It never remembers the last setting. New windows have the margins about 1/2 of my screen width.
Wouldn't it be simple if they simply had a button that said Save As Default?
Or better yet, simply remembered the last page layout?
More Apple amnesia. Or lack of flexibility.
I'll stick with Word. Sorry for wasting so much of your time on this. You have the patience of a saint.
earthsaver - Jul 6, 2006 - 9:48 pm
I think you're still missing my point. You need to set your default new window size in TextEdit Preferences. Manually resizing one window will not change future windows. TextEdit is not designed to be such a complex application as you seem to expect. The point, really, is its simplicity. Plus, the fact that its used to produce documents that generally do not need to be printed. Hence the default of not seeing the margins.
The only place I've seen the feature "Save Window Size" is in OmniWeb, which is a superiorly advanced, for-pay Web browser—the other end of the spectrum of application development. So, again, set your desired window size in preferences and it will stick forevermore.
RobinS - Jul 7, 2006 - 12:55 pm
Using TextEdit 1.4(220) with the latest OS X 10.4.7 update.
I tried to set it in the Preferences of TextEdit but it doesn't make any difference. I set the width to 300 characters and the lines to 200. New windows come up with a margin and are small are the same size no matter what I change the width and height to.
Is that correct? Do I need to change anything in Open and Save or just New Document?
earthsaver - Jul 7, 2006 - 1:45 pm
I wonder if your TextEdit Preferences are corrupt. Try trashing them from your Preferences folder, reopening TextEdit, and setting them again. Remember, too, to uncheck Wrap to page.
Also, if you like, I'll email you my copy of TextEdit? I compiled my own in Xcode with half-inch margins because one inch is such a waste of paper for the rare occasions when I print. Just let me know where to send it.
RobinS - Jul 7, 2006 - 7:28 pm
You are brilliant. That was it. If in doubt, start a new Preference file. I shall endeavor to remember that.
Question: Does the font size change the amount of characters needed to extend the TextEdit window to the maximum window size? (I would think it would.....bigger font, bigger characters.) If true, it means I'll have to change the height and width every time I'm using a different font.
earthsaver - Jul 7, 2006 - 7:51 pm
Did you test your theory before asking about it? You made a logical (and truthful) deduction about type size affecting window size preferences, however you've assumed that this applies every time you change the font you're using in a document you've created. The truth of the matter is the new document uses the preferences set for default typeface and size.
RobinS - Jul 9, 2006 - 2:19 pm
Didn't test. Just flung a hair brained idea out for all to see!
So I suppose this isn't for me. Since some documents are larger fonts than others. I just want the window to always be the maximum size. And for the font size not to change that window size.
Not really that important - but its good that is clarified. Word, even though it may have been hatched by the BEAST, for all practical purposes is really quite good. Its a little too complicated for my needs now, and Word Help is decidely not helpful, but hopefully I can grow into its complexity and Google will rescue me when I need help.
Thanks again.
earthsaver - Jul 9, 2006 - 2:43 pm
IT'S THE DEFAULT FONT PREFERENCES THAT MATTER!!!
Sorry, I rarely yell, but I found myself yelling at you out loud, realizing that doing so was not helpful, and that I should write it that way for your eyes to interpret.
Now, return to TextEdit Preferences. In the New Document section, click the Rich Text radio button at the top and make sure Wrap to Page is unchecked. Then, skip down to Font. Click Change… next to Rich Text. Choose your preferred *default* font (typeface and size).
Now, via trial and error, enter a value for Width, press Tab to make it register, and create a new window to check its width; then close it. Keep doing this, changing the Width value, until you find one that work for you. For me, 209 characters was appropriate for my choice of Garamond 12pt and my 1280-pixel wide display. Your value will be different depending on your font preference.
Do the same process for height. Once you find a pair of values that work they will always work, creating a maximized window by default. The only way to make them not stick is if you change your preferred *default* font. Changing your fonts in existing documents will *not* matter. New windows will always adhere to your preferred defaults.
Understand?
RobinS - Jul 9, 2006 - 3:04 pm
Yes - I got it. Font of 22 Helvetica = 114 x 36 for a 1280 x 1024 resolution.
When I open new windows they start to cascade - it would appear about every one in three. Is there any way of stopping the cascading thing or is this part of Cocoa?
I don't suppose you happen to know how to trim .avi files? They play perfectly in VLC but I don't need a couple of parts of them and the way it is now it just slightly too long for a DVD. Can I do it in iMovie or iDVD? I think I've got Adobe Premier too. I haven't learnt that yet. Looks intimidating. Brrrrrrr.....!
earthsaver - Jul 9, 2006 - 3:11 pm
Cascading is unfixable. Stick to opening one window at a time.
earthsaver - Jul 9, 2006 - 5:40 pm
Robin -
I have a business in which I consult with Mac users on repairing user error and training for improved productivity and computing effectiveness. May I quote your feedback on this question as a record for my business marketing? At the moment, you'd be referenced as User RobinS on macosx.com, unless you want me to be more or less specific.
Thanks!
- Ben Rosenthal, Consultant/Owner
Sustainable Computing
RobinS - Jul 9, 2006 - 8:52 pm
Quote away. You couldn't be more deserving. If you need an email address later let me know. Its the least I could do considering all the help you've bestowed.