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TICKET ARCHIVE -> pics appear "flat" on website
scottphoto - May 6, 2006 - 2:02 pm
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with this problem?
I have posted my pics on a few model forums and they appear to be OK. I've saved them as a profile Adobe RGB (1998). When they open on my website, the colours are flat and they've lost their "gloss".
My buddy has built the site with Flash MX and Internet Explorer v.7. he said that it may need an action script to sort the colour out. I know diddly squat about the net, so I thought I'd post this and see if anyone could help?
I have posted my pics on a few model forums and they appear to be OK. I've saved them as a profile Adobe RGB (1998). When they open on my website, the colours are flat and they've lost their "gloss".
My buddy has built the site with Flash MX and Internet Explorer v.7. he said that it may need an action script to sort the colour out. I know diddly squat about the net, so I thought I'd post this and see if anyone could help?
Drumhum - May 13, 2006 - 12:39 pm
I feel doubtful that the problem you are seeing is down to colour profile. Adobe RGB is a very standard, common format and is unlikely to cause problems. Colour profiles also tend to be more significant when printing. Are you delivering the pictures "ready for the web" or is your buddy converting them. Web pictures are much more likely to be more compressed than what comes out the camera and the heavy compression reduces the quality significantly. I'm just wondering if you are providing images that then go through some process before they get on the web, and its that process that results in the quality change.
Its hard to comment on what the problem is likely to be without seeing the pictures. Can you provide me with the website address?
If you can outline the processes that the pictures go through it would help too (eg from camera, to photoshop for edits - then jpeg compression in photoshop then upload to web). Indeed the more info you can provide regarding this process the better.
give me the extra info and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this.
regards
Tom
Its hard to comment on what the problem is likely to be without seeing the pictures. Can you provide me with the website address?
If you can outline the processes that the pictures go through it would help too (eg from camera, to photoshop for edits - then jpeg compression in photoshop then upload to web). Indeed the more info you can provide regarding this process the better.
give me the extra info and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this.
regards
Tom
scottphoto - May 15, 2006 - 3:20 pm
Hi Tom,
I understand about Adobe RGB is a very common format. I shoot on a Leaf digital back and convert to Adobe RGB 1998 through Photoshop CS2.
It's not worth me showing you my website because it's still under construction! My website buddy said that Safari converts and decompresses the pics, hence the colour loss and loss of sharpness in my pics. Also, Flash MX is not compatable with Mac! Something about the Gamma values were different to PC - any ideas?
I'm really being led on a wild goose chase here! My pics look fine when I've converted them and posted them to other sites, but as I said, they look crap on my site, which is most important to me!!!
If anyone can help... Purlease!!!
I understand about Adobe RGB is a very common format. I shoot on a Leaf digital back and convert to Adobe RGB 1998 through Photoshop CS2.
It's not worth me showing you my website because it's still under construction! My website buddy said that Safari converts and decompresses the pics, hence the colour loss and loss of sharpness in my pics. Also, Flash MX is not compatable with Mac! Something about the Gamma values were different to PC - any ideas?
I'm really being led on a wild goose chase here! My pics look fine when I've converted them and posted them to other sites, but as I said, they look crap on my site, which is most important to me!!!
If anyone can help... Purlease!!!
Drumhum - May 15, 2006 - 5:30 pm
Scott,
Nice camera!
:-)
As a photographer, I'm sure you would like to have full control of the pictures that appear on your website. For this reason I suggest you take responsibility of encoding the pictures your self (if you are not already). I'm not sure what the specification would be for your pics, but your website buddy should be able to tell you specifics. Most pictures on the web are in Jpeg (as you probably know) and photoshop is very good at preparing jpegs. You will need to know two "sizes":
*the resolution --- which will effect the dimensions of the pictures (how long/tall they are).
*the data size --- ie how big they are in kBytes. This will directly affect how compressed the pictures need to be. Photoshop not only allows you to set this with a quality slider but also allows you to see the end result before the picture is saved.
If you want to see the effect Safari (or any browser) has on your pictures, simply drag a picture file to a safari page. Safari will now show you the picture. If it looks fine this way (and it should!!) then you can rule out any safari problems. On my computer, my pics look just the same in Safari as they do in other software.
Regarding Gamma...
How your screen is calibrated is very important if you want to see stuff properly - I'm sure this is particularly important to photographers! Having said this, the subject is far more complex than one might think and this is due to how our eyes work and how we perceive colour. For example: if you look at images on screen in a room lit by daylight you will perceive (ie, see) colours differently to if you look at the screen in a room lit by light bulb. There is no "perfect" setting for a screen. Most people's screen is set to the Apple default setting that really does work fine for most applications.
The way Apple decided to set their screens is slightly different to the way microsoft/PC's do it. Gamma is the main difference. Gamma is a little like contrast, it effects the dark and light areas, how shadows come through etc. You can make your picture look darker or lighter with a change in gamma, like you can with contrast. It can also get confusing because you can adjust Gamma for a picture and you can adjust gamma for your screen but they are different controls. Think of it like you can adjust the contrast of your photograph but if its displayed on your tv, your tv also has a contrast control. The Gamma setting on a Mac is a bit lower than on a PC. This means a picture on a PC will look a little darker than on a Mac screen. Its something we all have to live with. (technically the Mac version is "better" - the PC version is such to allow a wider tolerance for all the different monitors and graphics cards that PC folk use)
If you want to optimise your picture for the web you need to bear this difference between Mac/pc monitors in mind - most folk don't bother, to be honest and just stick their picture up on the web and cross their fingers! Its about adjusting your photo so that it looks good on both a PC setting and a Mac setting. Again photoshop allows you to do this. See here...
http://www.photoshopsupport.com/tutorials/cb/gamma.html
If you want to experiment with your own monitor settings click on "monitors" in the system preferences, then select the "color" button and "calibrate". It is common for graphic/photo folks to have different monitor calibrations for different situations (particularly differing white points and differing Gammas).
"Flash MX is not compatible with Mac" - I don't believe this is correct. The current version of the flash plugins are supporting mac OS8.6 and above. OS8.6 is very old with very few users still on that! The latest versions of software for Flash developers are available for both Mac and PC. Not sure what you buddy is trying to tell you here (!?). There is no reason why any website (in Flash or not) shouldn't work on a Mac - unless the developer doesn't care!
To conclude, you need to bear in mind that your beautiful photos will never look as good when on the web. This is more due to the fact that they will be converted to Jpeg and will have to be very compressed in comparison to the originals - if they weren't then viewers of your web page would have to wait too long for the pics to download. There is no reason why your pictures shouldn't look good though.
I am no expert with website development and certainly, the technicalities of Flash stuff are outside my experience. If you have a specific query regarding Flash programming I suggest you start a new question.
Do feel free to get back to me about what's been discussed so far if you need further help/clarification
regards
Tom
Nice camera!
:-)
As a photographer, I'm sure you would like to have full control of the pictures that appear on your website. For this reason I suggest you take responsibility of encoding the pictures your self (if you are not already). I'm not sure what the specification would be for your pics, but your website buddy should be able to tell you specifics. Most pictures on the web are in Jpeg (as you probably know) and photoshop is very good at preparing jpegs. You will need to know two "sizes":
*the resolution --- which will effect the dimensions of the pictures (how long/tall they are).
*the data size --- ie how big they are in kBytes. This will directly affect how compressed the pictures need to be. Photoshop not only allows you to set this with a quality slider but also allows you to see the end result before the picture is saved.
If you want to see the effect Safari (or any browser) has on your pictures, simply drag a picture file to a safari page. Safari will now show you the picture. If it looks fine this way (and it should!!) then you can rule out any safari problems. On my computer, my pics look just the same in Safari as they do in other software.
Regarding Gamma...
How your screen is calibrated is very important if you want to see stuff properly - I'm sure this is particularly important to photographers! Having said this, the subject is far more complex than one might think and this is due to how our eyes work and how we perceive colour. For example: if you look at images on screen in a room lit by daylight you will perceive (ie, see) colours differently to if you look at the screen in a room lit by light bulb. There is no "perfect" setting for a screen. Most people's screen is set to the Apple default setting that really does work fine for most applications.
The way Apple decided to set their screens is slightly different to the way microsoft/PC's do it. Gamma is the main difference. Gamma is a little like contrast, it effects the dark and light areas, how shadows come through etc. You can make your picture look darker or lighter with a change in gamma, like you can with contrast. It can also get confusing because you can adjust Gamma for a picture and you can adjust gamma for your screen but they are different controls. Think of it like you can adjust the contrast of your photograph but if its displayed on your tv, your tv also has a contrast control. The Gamma setting on a Mac is a bit lower than on a PC. This means a picture on a PC will look a little darker than on a Mac screen. Its something we all have to live with. (technically the Mac version is "better" - the PC version is such to allow a wider tolerance for all the different monitors and graphics cards that PC folk use)
If you want to optimise your picture for the web you need to bear this difference between Mac/pc monitors in mind - most folk don't bother, to be honest and just stick their picture up on the web and cross their fingers! Its about adjusting your photo so that it looks good on both a PC setting and a Mac setting. Again photoshop allows you to do this. See here...
http://www.photoshopsupport.com/tutorials/cb/gamma.html
If you want to experiment with your own monitor settings click on "monitors" in the system preferences, then select the "color" button and "calibrate". It is common for graphic/photo folks to have different monitor calibrations for different situations (particularly differing white points and differing Gammas).
"Flash MX is not compatible with Mac" - I don't believe this is correct. The current version of the flash plugins are supporting mac OS8.6 and above. OS8.6 is very old with very few users still on that! The latest versions of software for Flash developers are available for both Mac and PC. Not sure what you buddy is trying to tell you here (!?). There is no reason why any website (in Flash or not) shouldn't work on a Mac - unless the developer doesn't care!
To conclude, you need to bear in mind that your beautiful photos will never look as good when on the web. This is more due to the fact that they will be converted to Jpeg and will have to be very compressed in comparison to the originals - if they weren't then viewers of your web page would have to wait too long for the pics to download. There is no reason why your pictures shouldn't look good though.
I am no expert with website development and certainly, the technicalities of Flash stuff are outside my experience. If you have a specific query regarding Flash programming I suggest you start a new question.
Do feel free to get back to me about what's been discussed so far if you need further help/clarification
regards
Tom
scottphoto - Jun 8, 2006 - 4:26 pm
Hi Tom,
Thanks for all of the above, I questioned my website builder buddy about everything that you have stated and we have now changed the pics to a different colour profile in Photoshop and it has improved it slightly!
It's still not perfect but it's better than before. I'll keep you posted if we find the missing link!
Thanks again!
Scott
Thanks for all of the above, I questioned my website builder buddy about everything that you have stated and we have now changed the pics to a different colour profile in Photoshop and it has improved it slightly!
It's still not perfect but it's better than before. I'll keep you posted if we find the missing link!
Thanks again!
Scott
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