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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Radeon 9800 Pro 256mb hanging at blue screen
SpiralOcean - Dec 11, 2005 - 10:00 am
I'm deep in the waters of frustration right now, and am hoping someone here might have the answer.
About 3 months ago I was looking for a video card for me to run motion. I saw the 9800 mac special edition with 128mb video ram had rave reviews. At that time ATI was not making them. So I turned to eBay...
I purchased a card that was advertised as a Mac 9800 pro special editing 128mb. I later found out it was a flashed pc card. The ebay seller told me the card worked fine on all his mac's that he tested it on.
The problem I was having was the machine boots up, I see the grey screen with the Apple logo and spinning wheel. I see the blue screen where normally I see the login progress bar loading the OS. But with this card I only see the blue screen. I hear the hard drive churning, so I am assuming it is still loading the OS, but I cannot see anything. I can reboot in safe mode and the video card works fine.
Well... I assumed it was the fault of the card and that it was flashed. I returned the card to the ebay seller, who sent me another one, same results with that one. I returned the card to the seller and he refunded my money.
I put the money toward the just released Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition 256mb card. I just got it a couple days ago and am experiencing the same problems. I have tried everything... everything I know and still can't get the card to work?
I am using an Apple Cinema Display and the DVI port on the card.
Here is a list of what I have done:
(Note: after every bullet, I restarted the computer and allowed a normal boot up to see if what I did had any effect on the problem)
• With original card, install drivers, repairpermissions, shut down, install new card
• Set to restart in single user, give 5 min to see if ATI monitor startup item in user starteputems loads
• Hooked VGA & DVI in together, both showed blue screen
• Reset NVRAM via open firmware
• Reset cuda button
• Take battery out, wait at least 10 min, re-install new battery, press cuda button
• Reinstall ATI update 4.5.6
• Reset nvram from open firmware
• In ATI control panel, selected 'Force Single Display Operation'
• Change display scaling to 50%
• Download latest Mac OS update from apple & reinstall
In an effort to make sure there wasn't any conflicting software on my OS, I completed the following steps. Rebooting into normal mode with the card installed to see if anything changed. In each case, I still only see a blue screen.
• Install 10.4 to fw drive
• insert 9800 256mb without ATI drivers
• insert 9000
• install ATI disk drivers - did not install because release notes say it is for g5 only.
• install ATI 4.5.6 update from website without disk first. Do not get error message when opening pref panel
• shutdown , install 9800, boot up
• remove 256mb OEM memory
• replace 256mb OEM memory
• start in safe mode & install drivers ATI 4.5.6
• Remove FW PCI Card
• Reset NVRAM
• Install 9200 card
• download OS updates for 10.4.3, shut down, install 9800 card, bootup.
Thank you.
About 3 months ago I was looking for a video card for me to run motion. I saw the 9800 mac special edition with 128mb video ram had rave reviews. At that time ATI was not making them. So I turned to eBay...
I purchased a card that was advertised as a Mac 9800 pro special editing 128mb. I later found out it was a flashed pc card. The ebay seller told me the card worked fine on all his mac's that he tested it on.
The problem I was having was the machine boots up, I see the grey screen with the Apple logo and spinning wheel. I see the blue screen where normally I see the login progress bar loading the OS. But with this card I only see the blue screen. I hear the hard drive churning, so I am assuming it is still loading the OS, but I cannot see anything. I can reboot in safe mode and the video card works fine.
Well... I assumed it was the fault of the card and that it was flashed. I returned the card to the ebay seller, who sent me another one, same results with that one. I returned the card to the seller and he refunded my money.
I put the money toward the just released Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition 256mb card. I just got it a couple days ago and am experiencing the same problems. I have tried everything... everything I know and still can't get the card to work?
I am using an Apple Cinema Display and the DVI port on the card.
Here is a list of what I have done:
(Note: after every bullet, I restarted the computer and allowed a normal boot up to see if what I did had any effect on the problem)
• With original card, install drivers, repairpermissions, shut down, install new card
• Set to restart in single user, give 5 min to see if ATI monitor startup item in user starteputems loads
• Hooked VGA & DVI in together, both showed blue screen
• Reset NVRAM via open firmware
• Reset cuda button
• Take battery out, wait at least 10 min, re-install new battery, press cuda button
• Reinstall ATI update 4.5.6
• Reset nvram from open firmware
• In ATI control panel, selected 'Force Single Display Operation'
• Change display scaling to 50%
• Download latest Mac OS update from apple & reinstall
In an effort to make sure there wasn't any conflicting software on my OS, I completed the following steps. Rebooting into normal mode with the card installed to see if anything changed. In each case, I still only see a blue screen.
• Install 10.4 to fw drive
• insert 9800 256mb without ATI drivers
• insert 9000
• install ATI disk drivers - did not install because release notes say it is for g5 only.
• install ATI 4.5.6 update from website without disk first. Do not get error message when opening pref panel
• shutdown , install 9800, boot up
• remove 256mb OEM memory
• replace 256mb OEM memory
• start in safe mode & install drivers ATI 4.5.6
• Remove FW PCI Card
• Reset NVRAM
• Install 9200 card
• download OS updates for 10.4.3, shut down, install 9800 card, bootup.
Thank you.
ishan - Dec 11, 2005 - 8:09 pm
Does your System Profiler see the 9800 or the 9200 card and identify it correctly? If it doesn't, it sounds like you have a bad video card slot which means a logic board replacement. If it does see the card, there are a couple more things to try, but check to see what System Profiler reports and let us know. Thanks.
SpiralOcean - Dec 11, 2005 - 9:18 pm
Thank you for the response!
I made a mistake reporting my current card, it's not a 9200 but a 9000.
Yes my system profiler does see the card. Here are some additional steps I did sense posting this:
• ATI ROM version = 113-A07552-134
ran the August 2005 ROM updater from ATI. (said July updater on the actual install program). Message on installer said:
'Your system does not contain ATI Mac Retail hardware matching your upgrade selections.'
Noticed that the latest ROM version for 9800 on the software updater is 130. It appers that the card is using 134? Why wouldn't the ATI ROM updater have the newest ROM?
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro:
Chipset Model: ATY,R350
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4e48
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-A07552-134
Displays:
Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Not Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected
My system profiler does see my 9000 also:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV250
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4966
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-99702-127
Displays:
Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected
And is what I am using now. I can use the 9800 in safe mode, and can also see the grey screen with spinning wheel. i can also use the video card slot with the 9000 and it works just fine. This would indicate to me that the video card slot is working?
Is there any software test I can do for the logic board? I ran TechTools on the 9000 to test the video memory, and it passed.
Thank you Thank you!
I made a mistake reporting my current card, it's not a 9200 but a 9000.
Yes my system profiler does see the card. Here are some additional steps I did sense posting this:
• ATI ROM version = 113-A07552-134
ran the August 2005 ROM updater from ATI. (said July updater on the actual install program). Message on installer said:
'Your system does not contain ATI Mac Retail hardware matching your upgrade selections.'
Noticed that the latest ROM version for 9800 on the software updater is 130. It appers that the card is using 134? Why wouldn't the ATI ROM updater have the newest ROM?
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro:
Chipset Model: ATY,R350
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4e48
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-A07552-134
Displays:
Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Not Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected
My system profiler does see my 9000 also:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV250
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4966
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-99702-127
Displays:
Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected
And is what I am using now. I can use the 9800 in safe mode, and can also see the grey screen with spinning wheel. i can also use the video card slot with the 9000 and it works just fine. This would indicate to me that the video card slot is working?
Is there any software test I can do for the logic board? I ran TechTools on the 9000 to test the video memory, and it passed.
Thank you Thank you!
SpiralOcean - Dec 11, 2005 - 11:41 pm
Okay... so I found my Apple Hardware Test CD, ran the hardware tests and found no problems with the logic board. However, trying to boot up from the AHT CD I did get the following errors:
Invalid Memory Access at:
%SSR0: 00034870
%SSR1: 00003030
I found one of the 512mb memory cards was giving out that error. I removed that card from the system and tried the card... still no luck.
One thing on the AHT, with the 9000 installed, it recognized it as ATI Radeon 9000 with 64 VRAM. With the 9800 installed, it did not recognize the card and only recognized 32VRAM on the 256mb card? However, Apple System Profiler recognizes it as the 256mb VRAM?
Here is another breakdown of the troubleshooting tests I committed:
ATI Card problem 3--12-11-05
• removed pci fw 800 card & unplugged all devices except keyboard.
inserted apple hardware test & booted.
Got the following error while hardware test was loading:
Invalid memory access @
%SRRO: 00034870
%SRR1: 00003030
shut computer down
removed 256mb memory in slot 0
removed 512mb memory in slot 1
booted into AHT disk with no errors
shutdown & replaced 512mb memory in slot 3
booted AHT & received error message
shutdown & removed 512mb memory, replaced 256mb memory in slot 0
booted into AHT wlth no errors
ran Apple Hardware Extended test with no errors on logic board or other errors
• shut computer down. Inserted 9800. Booted into OS on Hard drive. Same error.
• booted into AHT CD with 9800 installed. AHT shows graphics card as unknown with 32mb VRAM. Should show 256mb. Ran AHT, including video card test with no errors.
• reset nvram
• booted into safe-mode with 9800 lnstalled. Reinstalled drivers 4.5.6 update. Rebooted.
• Premis: 9800 needs 300w of power and is not getting it:
-Test: plugged the 9800 external power into the drive power source without additional drive.
-Test: plugged computer into an outlet by itself.
• Premis- 9800 requires 512mb system memory, first slot has 256mb & is assigned first. Maybe this is confusing 9800 card?
Test: rearranged memory modules so 512mb module is in slot 0, 256mb in slot 1.
• Premis: drivers need to be installed when 9800 is not installed.
-Test- install 9000 card. Re-install 10.4.3 mac OS update because it has ATI core image upates. boot into AHT disk to see how it looks at 9000 card. The AHT sees the 9000 & labels it as ATI radeon 9000 Pro. VRAM 64mb.
-Restart into Hard Drive OS.
-Re-install ATI 4.5.6 drivers. Shut down machine.
Installed ROM update for 9000 card, beacause I could.
Rebooted with 9800.
• Premis: video card is displaying main monitor as a secondary monitor & not showing the main monitor display
- Uncheck: 'enable ATI Valid & Safe Flags in Mode List' in ATI control panel. Rebooted.
- Uncheck: 'enable ATI scaler on non-Apple Panels' in ATI control panel. Rebooted.
- Uncheck: 'enable GTF modes for CRT' in ATI control panel.
- Check: 'enable Alternate DVI TMDS receiver mode' in ATI control panel.
- connected VGA monitor by itself to card.
Invalid Memory Access at:
%SSR0: 00034870
%SSR1: 00003030
I found one of the 512mb memory cards was giving out that error. I removed that card from the system and tried the card... still no luck.
One thing on the AHT, with the 9000 installed, it recognized it as ATI Radeon 9000 with 64 VRAM. With the 9800 installed, it did not recognize the card and only recognized 32VRAM on the 256mb card? However, Apple System Profiler recognizes it as the 256mb VRAM?
Here is another breakdown of the troubleshooting tests I committed:
ATI Card problem 3--12-11-05
• removed pci fw 800 card & unplugged all devices except keyboard.
inserted apple hardware test & booted.
Got the following error while hardware test was loading:
Invalid memory access @
%SRRO: 00034870
%SRR1: 00003030
shut computer down
removed 256mb memory in slot 0
removed 512mb memory in slot 1
booted into AHT disk with no errors
shutdown & replaced 512mb memory in slot 3
booted AHT & received error message
shutdown & removed 512mb memory, replaced 256mb memory in slot 0
booted into AHT wlth no errors
ran Apple Hardware Extended test with no errors on logic board or other errors
• shut computer down. Inserted 9800. Booted into OS on Hard drive. Same error.
• booted into AHT CD with 9800 installed. AHT shows graphics card as unknown with 32mb VRAM. Should show 256mb. Ran AHT, including video card test with no errors.
• reset nvram
• booted into safe-mode with 9800 lnstalled. Reinstalled drivers 4.5.6 update. Rebooted.
• Premis: 9800 needs 300w of power and is not getting it:
-Test: plugged the 9800 external power into the drive power source without additional drive.
-Test: plugged computer into an outlet by itself.
• Premis- 9800 requires 512mb system memory, first slot has 256mb & is assigned first. Maybe this is confusing 9800 card?
Test: rearranged memory modules so 512mb module is in slot 0, 256mb in slot 1.
• Premis: drivers need to be installed when 9800 is not installed.
-Test- install 9000 card. Re-install 10.4.3 mac OS update because it has ATI core image upates. boot into AHT disk to see how it looks at 9000 card. The AHT sees the 9000 & labels it as ATI radeon 9000 Pro. VRAM 64mb.
-Restart into Hard Drive OS.
-Re-install ATI 4.5.6 drivers. Shut down machine.
Installed ROM update for 9000 card, beacause I could.
Rebooted with 9800.
• Premis: video card is displaying main monitor as a secondary monitor & not showing the main monitor display
- Uncheck: 'enable ATI Valid & Safe Flags in Mode List' in ATI control panel. Rebooted.
- Uncheck: 'enable ATI scaler on non-Apple Panels' in ATI control panel. Rebooted.
- Uncheck: 'enable GTF modes for CRT' in ATI control panel.
- Check: 'enable Alternate DVI TMDS receiver mode' in ATI control panel.
- connected VGA monitor by itself to card.
ishan - Dec 12, 2005 - 4:23 am
You have done an exceptionally thorough and logical job in trying to troubleshoot your problem. Without access to Apple's own diagnostic software, you really can't do much more, except to try an nVidia card on your system (if you can get access to one that is supported by your system) or a different monitor. Barring that, I don't think you have any recourse except to take the Mac to an Apple Store. However, I will reopen your question to see if anyone else has any ideas as to what might be going on.
Did you have a power failure at home before all this happened? Are you using a decent quality surge protector?
Did you have a power failure at home before all this happened? Are you using a decent quality surge protector?
SpiralOcean - Dec 12, 2005 - 9:08 am
I have tried a VGA monitor, that did not work either.
I didn't have a power failer before it happened... that I'm aware of. At one point this computer was hooked up to a hope UPS by ADC. A couple of weeks ago the battery in the APC died out on me, so right now it's plugged into an APC surge protector.
I didn't have a power failer before it happened... that I'm aware of. At one point this computer was hooked up to a hope UPS by ADC. A couple of weeks ago the battery in the APC died out on me, so right now it's plugged into an APC surge protector.
a2daj - Dec 14, 2005 - 9:45 pm
As mentioned before you've done a very thorough job troubleshooting already. Excellent job!
A few of things I should point out.
1. The 256 MB Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition doesn't need new drivers installed. 10.3.9 has the latest Panther drivers for it and 10.4.3 has the latest Tiger drivers. So you don't need to install new drivers. In fact, the installer you have (ATI Displays 4.5.6) shouldn't install any new drivers, just the ATI Displays utility, which doesn't intall any graphics drivers.
2. The 512 MB of RAM is an absolute requirement. Apparently, with OS X, you must have at least double the VRAM of the card you have. I'm guessing it has something to do with OS X's OpenGL and how it's integrated with the operating system. The faulty 512 MB stick should definitely be replaced ASAP. If replacing the RAM doesn't fix the problem entirely I'll see if I can forward your problem to some ATI friends.
3. The ROM update doesn't have the ROM on the 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro because the card came out after the ROM update was posted. I think the 134 ROM is specifically for the 256 MB version. The 130 ROM included in the ROM update is specifically for the 128 MB version. I'd guess the ROMs are virtually identical except that the 134 ROM adds code to recognize the 256 MB.
A few of things I should point out.
1. The 256 MB Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition doesn't need new drivers installed. 10.3.9 has the latest Panther drivers for it and 10.4.3 has the latest Tiger drivers. So you don't need to install new drivers. In fact, the installer you have (ATI Displays 4.5.6) shouldn't install any new drivers, just the ATI Displays utility, which doesn't intall any graphics drivers.
2. The 512 MB of RAM is an absolute requirement. Apparently, with OS X, you must have at least double the VRAM of the card you have. I'm guessing it has something to do with OS X's OpenGL and how it's integrated with the operating system. The faulty 512 MB stick should definitely be replaced ASAP. If replacing the RAM doesn't fix the problem entirely I'll see if I can forward your problem to some ATI friends.
3. The ROM update doesn't have the ROM on the 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro because the card came out after the ROM update was posted. I think the 134 ROM is specifically for the 256 MB version. The 130 ROM included in the ROM update is specifically for the 128 MB version. I'd guess the ROMs are virtually identical except that the 134 ROM adds code to recognize the 256 MB.
SpiralOcean - Dec 14, 2005 - 11:49 pm
Thanks for your responses!
Regarding:
1. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I knew there were drivers for the card on the OSes, but had read posts or even 'support' documents on ATI's site that said ATI may overwrite mac drivers and if a card stops working to reinstall the latest Mac OS to reinstall the included video drivers. What a mess! These stupid video card companies put out so many versions that even the tech support people get confused. Why can't companies keep it simple?
2. I have 768 total RAM without that 512 card. It's interesting that the only time I ever had an error with that memory was during the Apple Hardware Test. This includes testing the RAM with Tech Tool Pro's newest version? And the RAM came from Apple with the computer. Usually they have higher quality RAM come with the machine.
3. That was my assumption as well about the ROM update.
Some new troubleshooting I've been doing.
I got a multimeter and tested out the power cable that the ATI uses. It reads spot on at 5v & 12v. I don't know how to test the amps to find out the wattage. (wattage = v * A ?) But ATI doesn't list specifically how much power the card needs? They just list that it needs to be in a computer with a 300w power supply unit. I checked in the Apple and it has a 400w power supply unit, although I didn't test it with the multimeter. I couldn't find any instructions on how to test all the power coming out of the PSU to all the different areas. And also don't know how to test the amps.
I looked at my wall sockets, they supply 115v, which is still acceptable. I'm not sure how many watts my wall sockets can handle, but would think if I've overdone it, then my circuit would trip.
I did try unplugging everything in my apartment, refrigerator, microwave, everything except the computer and monitor and got the same results.
I would think if it were a problem with power, then the card wouldn't come up at all. But I can get all the way to where the OS loading screen is, and all I see is blue there?
Thank you for any help you can offer! There's a box of chocolates for anyone who can help solve the mystery. :-p
Regarding:
1. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I knew there were drivers for the card on the OSes, but had read posts or even 'support' documents on ATI's site that said ATI may overwrite mac drivers and if a card stops working to reinstall the latest Mac OS to reinstall the included video drivers. What a mess! These stupid video card companies put out so many versions that even the tech support people get confused. Why can't companies keep it simple?
2. I have 768 total RAM without that 512 card. It's interesting that the only time I ever had an error with that memory was during the Apple Hardware Test. This includes testing the RAM with Tech Tool Pro's newest version? And the RAM came from Apple with the computer. Usually they have higher quality RAM come with the machine.
3. That was my assumption as well about the ROM update.
Some new troubleshooting I've been doing.
I got a multimeter and tested out the power cable that the ATI uses. It reads spot on at 5v & 12v. I don't know how to test the amps to find out the wattage. (wattage = v * A ?) But ATI doesn't list specifically how much power the card needs? They just list that it needs to be in a computer with a 300w power supply unit. I checked in the Apple and it has a 400w power supply unit, although I didn't test it with the multimeter. I couldn't find any instructions on how to test all the power coming out of the PSU to all the different areas. And also don't know how to test the amps.
I looked at my wall sockets, they supply 115v, which is still acceptable. I'm not sure how many watts my wall sockets can handle, but would think if I've overdone it, then my circuit would trip.
I did try unplugging everything in my apartment, refrigerator, microwave, everything except the computer and monitor and got the same results.
I would think if it were a problem with power, then the card wouldn't come up at all. But I can get all the way to where the OS loading screen is, and all I see is blue there?
Thank you for any help you can offer! There's a box of chocolates for anyone who can help solve the mystery. :-p
a2daj - Dec 16, 2005 - 5:46 am
I'm still stumped...
Basically any issue that it sounds like it could be you've already tried a test that would have fixed it. I thought maybe installing the flashed cards might have corrupted your display preferences but you installed a fresh install on the FW driver...
Anyway, I've tried to contact my ATI buddy. We'll see what he says. Do you by any chance know someone that has a Mac that's compatible with that card that you can put it in to see if the same problem occurs?
Basically any issue that it sounds like it could be you've already tried a test that would have fixed it. I thought maybe installing the flashed cards might have corrupted your display preferences but you installed a fresh install on the FW driver...
Anyway, I've tried to contact my ATI buddy. We'll see what he says. Do you by any chance know someone that has a Mac that's compatible with that card that you can put it in to see if the same problem occurs?
a2daj - Dec 16, 2005 - 5:50 am
Oh yeah, which model G4 do you have?
SpiralOcean - Dec 16, 2005 - 10:02 pm
I do have some macs at work I could try them on? That's a great idea.
The only thing that makes me think that it isn't the card is I had two 128mb PC flashed for Mac cards that had the same response. The eBay seller assured me that the cards worked on a couple of his mac's. I always thought it was the fact that they were pc for mac flashed cards.
I have a Dual 1ghz g4 Mirrored Drive Door (MDD) model.
I'm extremely curious to what is causing the problem.
The only thing that makes me think that it isn't the card is I had two 128mb PC flashed for Mac cards that had the same response. The eBay seller assured me that the cards worked on a couple of his mac's. I always thought it was the fact that they were pc for mac flashed cards.
I have a Dual 1ghz g4 Mirrored Drive Door (MDD) model.
I'm extremely curious to what is causing the problem.
a2daj - Dec 18, 2005 - 2:25 pm
Okay, I got word back and here's some suggestions to try:
"There are a few things to try. The person with the problem should try the following:
1. Install 10.4 (or 10.3.9)on his FW drive and boot from it (don't use the 9800 yet).
2. Install the ATI drivers that come on the 9800 cd. Our installer doesn't install any drivers over 10.3.9 or 10.4.x, HOWEVER, it will install the ATI ROM Xtender. This is needed for proper operation of the card. It also installs an older version of ATI Displays 4.5.x. The installation of ATI Displays isn't really important for this problem.
3. Place the 9800 card back into the system and reboot.
If the system still boots to the blue screen, boot back to safe mode and try removing the ATIRadeon9700.kext (don't delete it, just move it out of the SYSTEM\LIBRARY\EXTENSIONS folder). If he can boot normally with this extension removed, put it back in, and remove the ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin to see if this resolves his problem. Also try keeping the ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin file and removing the ATIRadeon9700GL.bundle to see if this also resolves the problem. Post the results to us.
A blue screen during bootup may indicate a problem communicating to the Window Server."
"There are a few things to try. The person with the problem should try the following:
1. Install 10.4 (or 10.3.9)on his FW drive and boot from it (don't use the 9800 yet).
2. Install the ATI drivers that come on the 9800 cd. Our installer doesn't install any drivers over 10.3.9 or 10.4.x, HOWEVER, it will install the ATI ROM Xtender. This is needed for proper operation of the card. It also installs an older version of ATI Displays 4.5.x. The installation of ATI Displays isn't really important for this problem.
3. Place the 9800 card back into the system and reboot.
If the system still boots to the blue screen, boot back to safe mode and try removing the ATIRadeon9700.kext (don't delete it, just move it out of the SYSTEM\LIBRARY\EXTENSIONS folder). If he can boot normally with this extension removed, put it back in, and remove the ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin to see if this resolves his problem. Also try keeping the ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin file and removing the ATIRadeon9700GL.bundle to see if this also resolves the problem. Post the results to us.
A blue screen during bootup may indicate a problem communicating to the Window Server."
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 4:59 pm
Now were gettin' somewhere! You rock a2daj!
I followed the instructions step by step. The only thing that should have been mentioned is to log in as root to move the files in and out of the folders. At first I was logged in as an Admin, and could only copy the file out then delete from the folder. When I tried to copy the file back, the permissions on the file were changed, specifically it was owned by system, and when copied back was owned by test (my admin user). I restored the file preferences by reinstalling from the ATI cd. In doing so, I noticed some interesting phenomenons... if the file doesn't exist in the extensions folder, it won't put the file back in the folder. You have to have the file already there in order for the CD to reinstall the file. Strange...
Here are the results:
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700.kext
out of the extensions folder, the system booted up with the 9800 card installed. However, Core Image & GL Extreme are not supported and a simple graphics test like dragging windows around caused excessive stuttering. My 9000 could keep up with dragging windows around.
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin
out of the extensions folder, the system booted up with the 9800 card. I had replaced the ATIRadeon9700.kext file.
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700GL.bundle
out of the extensions folder, the system did not boot up... it stopped at the blue screen. (Both of the other files were replaced with correct file permissions)
While moving those first two files out of the extensions folder allowed me to use the card for the first time, I do not think I am utilizing the cards full potential. Core Image & GL Extreme are not enabled, and I am not able to install Motion. (The reason I bought the card).
What should be my next step with this? I have a ticket open with ATI, but am not allowed to respond to it until I responded to. So far the help there has been... questionable.
Any thoughts?
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
I followed the instructions step by step. The only thing that should have been mentioned is to log in as root to move the files in and out of the folders. At first I was logged in as an Admin, and could only copy the file out then delete from the folder. When I tried to copy the file back, the permissions on the file were changed, specifically it was owned by system, and when copied back was owned by test (my admin user). I restored the file preferences by reinstalling from the ATI cd. In doing so, I noticed some interesting phenomenons... if the file doesn't exist in the extensions folder, it won't put the file back in the folder. You have to have the file already there in order for the CD to reinstall the file. Strange...
Here are the results:
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700.kext
out of the extensions folder, the system booted up with the 9800 card installed. However, Core Image & GL Extreme are not supported and a simple graphics test like dragging windows around caused excessive stuttering. My 9000 could keep up with dragging windows around.
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin
out of the extensions folder, the system booted up with the 9800 card. I had replaced the ATIRadeon9700.kext file.
When moving the file:
ATIRadeon9700GL.bundle
out of the extensions folder, the system did not boot up... it stopped at the blue screen. (Both of the other files were replaced with correct file permissions)
While moving those first two files out of the extensions folder allowed me to use the card for the first time, I do not think I am utilizing the cards full potential. Core Image & GL Extreme are not enabled, and I am not able to install Motion. (The reason I bought the card).
What should be my next step with this? I have a ticket open with ATI, but am not allowed to respond to it until I responded to. So far the help there has been... questionable.
Any thoughts?
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 5:29 pm
I just realized something...
there are no ATIradeon9800.kext directories in the extensions folder. And if Apple is supposed to be supplying the drivers, does that mean we are waiting on Apple to deliver the drivers or ATI?
there are no ATIradeon9800.kext directories in the extensions folder. And if Apple is supposed to be supplying the drivers, does that mean we are waiting on Apple to deliver the drivers or ATI?
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 5:37 pm
Just looked at the ATI website, a new display software version has been released on december 16th. 4.5.7.
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...e&folderID=299
Unfortunately, it does not download. Tried both Safari & Firefox.
Half of the ATI support site doesn't work with Safari anyways.
Theoretically, this software shouldn't run my card anybetter? Because Apple is the one that puts out the drivers? I have to wait for Apple to update the drivers before I can use the card?
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...e&folderID=299
Unfortunately, it does not download. Tried both Safari & Firefox.
Half of the ATI support site doesn't work with Safari anyways.
Theoretically, this software shouldn't run my card anybetter? Because Apple is the one that puts out the drivers? I have to wait for Apple to update the drivers before I can use the card?
a2daj - Dec 18, 2005 - 6:09 pm
Which OS did you use for the test, 10.3.9 or 10.4.0? You might be able to install a small subset of drivers off the 10.4 disk if you choose the most basic installation possible. If you used Panther, then you can reinstall the drivers for 10.3.9 with the 10.3.9 combo installer.
As far as moving the extensions in and out of /System/Library/Extensions, I was able to move things out of the folder as an Admin. I didn't need to log in as root. But maybe it's because I put the kext files in the trash... When you move the files back, you should be able to use Disk Utility to repair permissions. I'll have to double check that myself to make sure (not near a Mac at the moment...). I just want to make sure when you tried to move things around you were in Safe Mode?
The reason there aren't any Radoen 9800 Pro specific extensions is because ATI uses the same drivers for the Radeon 9550-X800 cards because they all use the same basic feature set and architecture. The Radeon 9700 happened to be the first card with that architecture which came to the Mac platform in the short lived OS X only G4 Towers (Dual 1.42 series, 9700 Pro was an OEM only option).
The new Display software doesn't include graphics drivers anyway so you shouldn't have to worry about it. The only important file it would install is the ATI ROM Xtender which should already be installed via one of the instructions mentioned.
As far as moving the extensions in and out of /System/Library/Extensions, I was able to move things out of the folder as an Admin. I didn't need to log in as root. But maybe it's because I put the kext files in the trash... When you move the files back, you should be able to use Disk Utility to repair permissions. I'll have to double check that myself to make sure (not near a Mac at the moment...). I just want to make sure when you tried to move things around you were in Safe Mode?
The reason there aren't any Radoen 9800 Pro specific extensions is because ATI uses the same drivers for the Radeon 9550-X800 cards because they all use the same basic feature set and architecture. The Radeon 9700 happened to be the first card with that architecture which came to the Mac platform in the short lived OS X only G4 Towers (Dual 1.42 series, 9700 Pro was an OEM only option).
The new Display software doesn't include graphics drivers anyway so you shouldn't have to worry about it. The only important file it would install is the ATI ROM Xtender which should already be installed via one of the instructions mentioned.
a2daj - Dec 18, 2005 - 6:12 pm
Ooops, should clarify something. I actually skimmed over the step myself when reading the ATI guy's instructions. Do you move things in Safe mode and then test in Normal mode?
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 6:15 pm
Yes. I can boot in normal mode with the card functioning. However, the performance of the card is more like safe mode. And Core Image & Quartz Extreme are not functioning.
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 6:17 pm
I installed 10.4 on the external FW drive.
I only moved the files in safe mode when it wasn't working? Let me go back and move the files around in safe mode and see if the results are the same.
I only moved the files in safe mode when it wasn't working? Let me go back and move the files around in safe mode and see if the results are the same.
a2daj - Dec 18, 2005 - 6:22 pm
Okay. It makes sense that graphics acceleration would be disabled when the first two kext files are missing. The first one I believe adds some stuff beyond basic functionality, essentially the means to take advantage of the card, while the GA file adds Graphics Acceleration.
I've forwarded your response to my ATI contact so hopefully we hear something from him in the next few days. He'll probably ask for this so could you provide a report dump of your System with System Profile, probably in XML format.
I've forwarded your response to my ATI contact so hopefully we hear something from him in the next few days. He'll probably ask for this so could you provide a report dump of your System with System Profile, probably in XML format.
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 7:00 pm
I retested changing out the files while in safe-mode. The ATIRadeon9700ga file doesn't work either.
I looked into the ATIRadeon9700.kext package .plist file and found that it references the ATIRadeon9700ga file. So if the ATIRadeon9700.kext file is missing, the system is probably not accessing the GA file. Which I think is what you just said! :-)
I hadn't clued in to the fact that GA stands for Graphics Acceleration.
Thanks again for your help and your friends help a2daj! No problem for a System Info dump.
I looked into the ATIRadeon9700.kext package .plist file and found that it references the ATIRadeon9700ga file. So if the ATIRadeon9700.kext file is missing, the system is probably not accessing the GA file. Which I think is what you just said! :-)
I hadn't clued in to the fact that GA stands for Graphics Acceleration.
Thanks again for your help and your friends help a2daj! No problem for a System Info dump.
SpiralOcean - Dec 18, 2005 - 9:18 pm
I'm starting to think that there was some miscommunication between ATI & Apple. Taking the ATIRadeon9700.kext file out of the extensions folder is the same as starting in safeboot, only I don't have to hold down the shift key and my other extensions start up.
I'll wager that either ATI released their 9800 too soon or Apple missed their proposed deadline for 10.4.4, Which I am hoping will have new and improved ATI drivers.
It seems odd that I appear to be the only low end machine (dual 1ghz g4 mdd) that is having problems. I haven't found any other postings on the net that deal with the same machine and card. I'll see if I can take the card in to work where we have a dual g5 to see if it works and post back.
I'll wager that either ATI released their 9800 too soon or Apple missed their proposed deadline for 10.4.4, Which I am hoping will have new and improved ATI drivers.
It seems odd that I appear to be the only low end machine (dual 1ghz g4 mdd) that is having problems. I haven't found any other postings on the net that deal with the same machine and card. I'll see if I can take the card in to work where we have a dual g5 to see if it works and post back.
a2daj - Dec 19, 2005 - 3:23 pm
They haven't been able to reproduce the problem on their side so they've asked for more information. Here's what they have to say:
"1. I'm assuming the OS booted with is 10.4. What is the version number for the 9700 drivers and the ROM Xtender? This is to check if the correct drivers are installed.
2. When you launch ATI Displays under Info tab/Profile, what is the version number of the NDRV? This is to see if latest NDRV loaded.
3. Can we maybe get an attached file of the System Profiler? This is to match your config with mine to try to duplicate problem.
4. And is there another system that the card can try to boot up with? This is in case it's HW issue."
Some of the questions you've already answered, like the version (10.4.0) and the work G5 in which you would try to install the card, so I sent that back to him. When providing the driver version numbers please include the numbers in (####).
"1. I'm assuming the OS booted with is 10.4. What is the version number for the 9700 drivers and the ROM Xtender? This is to check if the correct drivers are installed.
2. When you launch ATI Displays under Info tab/Profile, what is the version number of the NDRV? This is to see if latest NDRV loaded.
3. Can we maybe get an attached file of the System Profiler? This is to match your config with mine to try to duplicate problem.
4. And is there another system that the card can try to boot up with? This is in case it's HW issue."
Some of the questions you've already answered, like the version (10.4.0) and the work G5 in which you would try to install the card, so I sent that back to him. When providing the driver version numbers please include the numbers in (####).
a2daj - Dec 19, 2005 - 3:25 pm
Oops, again. When I said "version (10.4.0) that was in reference to the OS, not the driver version).
SpiralOcean - Dec 19, 2005 - 9:09 pm
Again, thank you for your help. I've quoted your response below and filled in my responses:
>They haven't been able to reproduce the problem on their side so they've >asked for more information. Here's what they have to say:
>1. I'm assuming the OS booted with is 10.4. What is the version number for >the 9700 drivers and the ROM Xtender? This is to check if the correct drivers >are installed.
I've tried the card with 10.4 & 10.4.3.
The version number for the 9700 driver:
In FW OS: 1.4.0
In HD OS: 1.4.16
Version on the ATI Rom Extender (which is in a directory ...Extensions/AppleNDRV)
In FW OS: 1.1.8
In HD OS: 1.2.7f2
>2. When you launch ATI Displays under Info tab/Profile, what is the version >number of the NDRV? This is to see if latest NDRV loaded.
In FW OS: 1.0.1f59 (with 9800 installed and booking with the ATIRadeon9700.kext removed)
In HD OS: 1.1.0f57 (with 9000 installed)
>3. Can we maybe get an attached file of the System Profiler? This is to match >your config with mine to try to duplicate problem.
I posted my system profile using macosX.com's application. Very cool. You should see it attached to my profile. I didn't have the 9800 installed when I ran the system profile, but I did post it earlier in this thread if you need it.
>4. And is there another system that the card can try to boot up with? This is >in case it's HW issue."
I'm still working on this one. Will hopefully do it tomorrow.
Please let me know if you ned any additional information!
Thank you!
>They haven't been able to reproduce the problem on their side so they've >asked for more information. Here's what they have to say:
>1. I'm assuming the OS booted with is 10.4. What is the version number for >the 9700 drivers and the ROM Xtender? This is to check if the correct drivers >are installed.
I've tried the card with 10.4 & 10.4.3.
The version number for the 9700 driver:
In FW OS: 1.4.0
In HD OS: 1.4.16
Version on the ATI Rom Extender (which is in a directory ...Extensions/AppleNDRV)
In FW OS: 1.1.8
In HD OS: 1.2.7f2
>2. When you launch ATI Displays under Info tab/Profile, what is the version >number of the NDRV? This is to see if latest NDRV loaded.
In FW OS: 1.0.1f59 (with 9800 installed and booking with the ATIRadeon9700.kext removed)
In HD OS: 1.1.0f57 (with 9000 installed)
>3. Can we maybe get an attached file of the System Profiler? This is to match >your config with mine to try to duplicate problem.
I posted my system profile using macosX.com's application. Very cool. You should see it attached to my profile. I didn't have the 9800 installed when I ran the system profile, but I did post it earlier in this thread if you need it.
>4. And is there another system that the card can try to boot up with? This is >in case it's HW issue."
I'm still working on this one. Will hopefully do it tomorrow.
Please let me know if you ned any additional information!
Thank you!
a2daj - Dec 19, 2005 - 11:51 pm
Would it be alright to get your email address so I can send it to the ATI guys? It'll probably be easier to deal with them directly. Or if you would prefer, I might be able to get an email address from them you can contact.
SpiralOcean - Dec 20, 2005 - 8:45 am
a2daj - Dec 20, 2005 - 10:57 am
Thanks. I've sent your address to my contact. Hopefully, you should here from someone at ATI in the next day or two. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. For the time being I'll close this ticket but feel free to reopen it if you feel the need. Also, if you don't mind, if you get everything sorted out, I'd be really curious what the resolution is.
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