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robert_s - Jun 6, 2005 - 6:09 am
I share office space with several others. We have a collective broadband internet connection and a LAN nework with a DHCP sever (dynamic IP addressing). I'm setting up a small network for my team, about 8-10 computers, mostly macs (all running OS X.3) but also some PCs. One of the macs is the print server (via USB printer sharing) and has a FW HD with archives and backup.
OK, so here's the problems.
1. The PCs (running XP) can't print through the server, although Printer sharing is switched on, as is Windows sharing. They find the computer and the printer, but can't print. This could be an XP issue, but is there anything else I should look at mac-side?
2. The PCs can't find the hard drives on the server either. The user folders are accessible but neither the internal nor the external drives. again could be an XP issue, but want to eliminate any mac questions.
3. At the moment, the solution to permissions and access issues is very provisional. I think it's time to set up an office network within the LAN network. I took a look at Apples official PDF about NetInfo Manager, which I find quite impenetrable for somebody not used to working with large networks. I'm not exactly a complete newbie to OSX (I've debugged installation on unsupported macs etc.), just not too experienced in networking issues. Can anybody give me pointers to setting up very simple network group of Macs and PCs (without subnets or anything), which will allow everybody (10 computers) access to the server hard drives. Maybe there's some simple guides out there which don't require one to go right to the bowels of NetInfo Manager. I'm not afraid of the occasional command line bash
.
Robert
OK, so here's the problems.
1. The PCs (running XP) can't print through the server, although Printer sharing is switched on, as is Windows sharing. They find the computer and the printer, but can't print. This could be an XP issue, but is there anything else I should look at mac-side?
2. The PCs can't find the hard drives on the server either. The user folders are accessible but neither the internal nor the external drives. again could be an XP issue, but want to eliminate any mac questions.
3. At the moment, the solution to permissions and access issues is very provisional. I think it's time to set up an office network within the LAN network. I took a look at Apples official PDF about NetInfo Manager, which I find quite impenetrable for somebody not used to working with large networks. I'm not exactly a complete newbie to OSX (I've debugged installation on unsupported macs etc.), just not too experienced in networking issues. Can anybody give me pointers to setting up very simple network group of Macs and PCs (without subnets or anything), which will allow everybody (10 computers) access to the server hard drives. Maybe there's some simple guides out there which don't require one to go right to the bowels of NetInfo Manager. I'm not afraid of the occasional command line bash
.Robert
Saxphile - Jun 6, 2005 - 9:07 pm
Hi Robert,
You sound like you know quite a bit about networking, so I'm going to make this brief:
1. See these threads:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...41211200033764
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...40410124605510
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...21101062604548
In short, when you set up the printer you need to select any PostScript driver like the Apple LaserWriter or Color LaserWriter instead of the printer model you're using.
2. That's exactly how file sharing on Mac works. If you login as Guest, you only see the Public folders. If you login as a specific user, you see its home folder. To share other folders on your Mac, you need to edit /etc/smb.conf. See here for more information:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...02082601170699
3. You might want to set up a Domain server for this. I don't know how to do it with OS X client (OS X server has built-in support for this), but if you show me the Netinfo Manager PDF file I might be able to figure it out.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
You sound like you know quite a bit about networking, so I'm going to make this brief:
1. See these threads:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...41211200033764
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...40410124605510
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...21101062604548
In short, when you set up the printer you need to select any PostScript driver like the Apple LaserWriter or Color LaserWriter instead of the printer model you're using.
2. That's exactly how file sharing on Mac works. If you login as Guest, you only see the Public folders. If you login as a specific user, you see its home folder. To share other folders on your Mac, you need to edit /etc/smb.conf. See here for more information:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...02082601170699
3. You might want to set up a Domain server for this. I don't know how to do it with OS X client (OS X server has built-in support for this), but if you show me the Netinfo Manager PDF file I might be able to figure it out.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Saxphile - Jun 8, 2005 - 8:25 pm
Hi Robert,
Just want to check if you need more information.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Just want to check if you need more information.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 9, 2005 - 5:54 am
Charlie,
Thanks for your help - I appreciate it a lot.
Don't know if you got my previous response - it doesn't appear in the thread. I'll summarise.
1. I'll try it out. The post script driver option looks like the simplest option. I'm currently sharing the printer through Epson's USB sharing, as that is the only way that all paper formats are selectable. A generic driver will probably be limited in this respect.
2. I got so far with NetInfo Manager that I set up a group with all the staff users in it. I assigned Read & Write privileges to this group in the Info fenster of the external drive, and tried to log in as one of the staff from another mac. None of the non-admin user names allowed access to the drive.
3. The pdf's at:
http://www.apple.com/server/pdfs/Und...ingNetInfo.pdf.
If a domain server helps overcome the problem with the group then I'm up for it.
Thanks again, Charlie.
Robert
Thanks for your help - I appreciate it a lot.
Don't know if you got my previous response - it doesn't appear in the thread. I'll summarise.
1. I'll try it out. The post script driver option looks like the simplest option. I'm currently sharing the printer through Epson's USB sharing, as that is the only way that all paper formats are selectable. A generic driver will probably be limited in this respect.
2. I got so far with NetInfo Manager that I set up a group with all the staff users in it. I assigned Read & Write privileges to this group in the Info fenster of the external drive, and tried to log in as one of the staff from another mac. None of the non-admin user names allowed access to the drive.
3. The pdf's at:
http://www.apple.com/server/pdfs/Und...ingNetInfo.pdf.
If a domain server helps overcome the problem with the group then I'm up for it.
Thanks again, Charlie.
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 9, 2005 - 6:24 am
Hi Robert,
Information relevant to you is in Page 43 and 44. You need to create
a hierarchy that contains only one shared root domain, and you'll need to set up local domain on each computer so it binds to the root domain. In Windows term, that like having one domain server and make each computer login onto the domain server. Just try to do it and pass me any questions you might have.
Good luck with the printer.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Information relevant to you is in Page 43 and 44. You need to create
a hierarchy that contains only one shared root domain, and you'll need to set up local domain on each computer so it binds to the root domain. In Windows term, that like having one domain server and make each computer login onto the domain server. Just try to do it and pass me any questions you might have.
Good luck with the printer.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 10, 2005 - 4:43 am
Charlie,
The pdf seems to assume I've got OSX Server installed on the machine where the root domain is to be set up. Unfortunately I don't, so don't seem to have NetInfo Domain Setup.
Is this doable on a machine with normal Panther system installed?
If not, do I need OSX Server or can I install a couple of components (eg. via Pacifist) onto a normal Panther OS to enable this management?
Does the machine with the root domain need a fixed IP address? Is this possible with a DHCP server? In Preferences>Network>TCP/IP there is an option "Configure IPv4: Using DHCP with manual address" (currently it's just "Configure IPv4: Using DHCP " - address is distributed dynamically across net) Can I just check this and type in the IP address which the machine currently has and that sticks?
Thanks
Robert
The pdf seems to assume I've got OSX Server installed on the machine where the root domain is to be set up. Unfortunately I don't, so don't seem to have NetInfo Domain Setup.
Is this doable on a machine with normal Panther system installed?
If not, do I need OSX Server or can I install a couple of components (eg. via Pacifist) onto a normal Panther OS to enable this management?
Does the machine with the root domain need a fixed IP address? Is this possible with a DHCP server? In Preferences>Network>TCP/IP there is an option "Configure IPv4: Using DHCP with manual address" (currently it's just "Configure IPv4: Using DHCP " - address is distributed dynamically across net) Can I just check this and type in the IP address which the machine currently has and that sticks?
Thanks
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 10, 2005 - 5:51 am
Hi Robert,
Actually that's something (Panther server) I've wanted to remind you all along, but I kept forgetting. I think you do need Panther server to set up a root domain.
Apple doesn't make this very clear, but Mac OS X client and server are completely incompatible. Some even suggest that the two system versions cannot coexist on the same system.
I don't think the domain server needs to have a fixed IP address, but you can certainly just manually type the IP settings and it'll stick. To be 100% safe you might want to exclude that IP address from the DHCP server.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Actually that's something (Panther server) I've wanted to remind you all along, but I kept forgetting. I think you do need Panther server to set up a root domain.
Apple doesn't make this very clear, but Mac OS X client and server are completely incompatible. Some even suggest that the two system versions cannot coexist on the same system.
I don't think the domain server needs to have a fixed IP address, but you can certainly just manually type the IP settings and it'll stick. To be 100% safe you might want to exclude that IP address from the DHCP server.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 10, 2005 - 9:34 am
Charlie,
That's a b***er! The computer's an Old World Mac (g3 beige) running Panther via XPostFacto - I don't know if I could get XServer running on it. On top of that it's a machine which is also used as a workstation so it would need to be able to work as that too - I don't know if there's bits of Panther missing from XServer which would make this problematic - they've got it running on one computer in the neighbouring room and I noticed, for instance, that in the preferences there's no option for printer sharing.
Could you think of a third party software or workaround to set up the root domain without having to change the system?
Thanks,
Robert
That's a b***er! The computer's an Old World Mac (g3 beige) running Panther via XPostFacto - I don't know if I could get XServer running on it. On top of that it's a machine which is also used as a workstation so it would need to be able to work as that too - I don't know if there's bits of Panther missing from XServer which would make this problematic - they've got it running on one computer in the neighbouring room and I noticed, for instance, that in the preferences there's no option for printer sharing.
Could you think of a third party software or workaround to set up the root domain without having to change the system?
Thanks,
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 10, 2005 - 5:53 pm
Hi Robert,
I don't think bummer is a x-rated word, so I'm gonna un-censor that for you. Bummer.
I don't think there's anything missing from Panther server. Printer sharing is in Server Setup and so are the other sharing functions.
I'm not aware of any solution to run a domain server on Panther client (I did look yesterday). If I come by anything I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
I don't think bummer is a x-rated word, so I'm gonna un-censor that for you. Bummer.
I don't think there's anything missing from Panther server. Printer sharing is in Server Setup and so are the other sharing functions.
I'm not aware of any solution to run a domain server on Panther client (I did look yesterday). If I come by anything I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 16, 2005 - 4:29 am
Charlie,
Have to see what I can do about getting hold of OSX Server. It's a question of money! I've discovered in the meantime that XPostFacto DOES support OSX Server, so if you get any inquiries about using Old World Macs as Servers, then you can point them in the direction of Ryan Rempel and take it from there. My own experience is that Panther has given a new lease of life to my old beige, and runs in Panther 10x more stably than it ever did in OS9.
But there's something I still don't understand.
I set up a workgroup through NetInfo Manager in Panther Client and assigned read &write privileges to that group in the Info window of a drive, and then clicked on "Apply to enclosed items..." Logic would say that all folders, not just user related ones, should be accessible for that group. But, when you log on as one of the group (non-admin user) the drive is not visible. So clearly it doesn't work quite as the info window implies. But seeing as though I don't know UNIX, maybe that's my logic problem and not Panther's. Don't quite know what I'm missing.
Anyhow, would a provisional workaround be the following:
1. Install Panther on the 2 harddrives on the server computer which need to be accessed by everybody (one internal, the other FW external).
2. Create a user (called say "office") on each drive.
3. Move all the files to be accessed into the public folder of this user.
4. Use the ownership & permissions setup in the info window to assign access to these folders only for the workgroup outlined above (thereby excluding other users on the LAN network outside our office).
5. Login from another computer would offer you both the drives, and in each the user folder "office" and, as well as a dropbox, the rest of the files.
Step 1 isn't strictly necessary, as I know there's a command line method for setting up user folders on drives or partitions without an installed system. I could investigate if that's simpler than clogging up my drives with numerous systems, but the above would be a dummies method (that's me).
Does that make sense or am I missing something.
Thanks,
Robert
Have to see what I can do about getting hold of OSX Server. It's a question of money! I've discovered in the meantime that XPostFacto DOES support OSX Server, so if you get any inquiries about using Old World Macs as Servers, then you can point them in the direction of Ryan Rempel and take it from there. My own experience is that Panther has given a new lease of life to my old beige, and runs in Panther 10x more stably than it ever did in OS9.
But there's something I still don't understand.
I set up a workgroup through NetInfo Manager in Panther Client and assigned read &write privileges to that group in the Info window of a drive, and then clicked on "Apply to enclosed items..." Logic would say that all folders, not just user related ones, should be accessible for that group. But, when you log on as one of the group (non-admin user) the drive is not visible. So clearly it doesn't work quite as the info window implies. But seeing as though I don't know UNIX, maybe that's my logic problem and not Panther's. Don't quite know what I'm missing.
Anyhow, would a provisional workaround be the following:
1. Install Panther on the 2 harddrives on the server computer which need to be accessed by everybody (one internal, the other FW external).
2. Create a user (called say "office") on each drive.
3. Move all the files to be accessed into the public folder of this user.
4. Use the ownership & permissions setup in the info window to assign access to these folders only for the workgroup outlined above (thereby excluding other users on the LAN network outside our office).
5. Login from another computer would offer you both the drives, and in each the user folder "office" and, as well as a dropbox, the rest of the files.
Step 1 isn't strictly necessary, as I know there's a command line method for setting up user folders on drives or partitions without an installed system. I could investigate if that's simpler than clogging up my drives with numerous systems, but the above would be a dummies method (that's me
).Does that make sense or am I missing something.
Thanks,
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 16, 2005 - 4:47 am
Hi Robert,
Glad to hear that XPostFacto works well for you. It's really quite amazing how long Macs can stick around and still be functional.
First of all, if your users are connecting to the server via SAMBA (i.e. smb://yourhost/), you should be able to follow the instructions here:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...02082601170699
And make anything you want accessible to the users. If you log in via AFP, however, you can't see anything other the your own home folder, even if you are an administrator.
As for your workaround, I don't understand why you need to install Panther on two drives. Even if you did, you can only run one at a time, right? So it all goes back to editing samba configuration file. Also, it sounded like your users all have their individual machines, so there's no need to set up a domain, which enables an user to log in on *any* machines in that domain. All you need to do is to just create accounts that have the name and password as on the users' individual machines on the G3, and assign them to the same group. This way you don't need Panther server, either.
Lastly, I have to admit that I don't have hands-on experience with the stuff I talked about. I know how it works, but I never had the chance (or need) to do this stuff. I think you'd really benefit from a proper book like this one:
http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl...47253&from=rss
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Glad to hear that XPostFacto works well for you. It's really quite amazing how long Macs can stick around and still be functional.
First of all, if your users are connecting to the server via SAMBA (i.e. smb://yourhost/), you should be able to follow the instructions here:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...02082601170699
And make anything you want accessible to the users. If you log in via AFP, however, you can't see anything other the your own home folder, even if you are an administrator.
As for your workaround, I don't understand why you need to install Panther on two drives. Even if you did, you can only run one at a time, right? So it all goes back to editing samba configuration file. Also, it sounded like your users all have their individual machines, so there's no need to set up a domain, which enables an user to log in on *any* machines in that domain. All you need to do is to just create accounts that have the name and password as on the users' individual machines on the G3, and assign them to the same group. This way you don't need Panther server, either.
Lastly, I have to admit that I don't have hands-on experience with the stuff I talked about. I know how it works, but I never had the chance (or need) to do this stuff. I think you'd really benefit from a proper book like this one:
http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl...47253&from=rss
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 16, 2005 - 6:13 am
Charlie,
I don't know how to see from another mac if i'm logging in via Samba or AFP. When I log in from another mac as normal user, I get the home folders, as an admin user I get the drives - does that mean it's Samba? As for the PCs, I'll ask here among the XP users.
The extra Panther systems are not there to boot from, they're just there so that user folders are set up on the relevant drives. On Old World Macs it's anyway a bit complicated as the boot system has to be within the first 8GB of the drive, so on a separate, 7,8GB first partition. That's not enough space to put all the drive content in the user folder from - therefore the workaround. Similarly for the FW drive. As I say it's a messy method to avoid hitting the command line. Other alternatives for moving home directories off the boot drive are here (I've just havn't had the time to try them out):
http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18789
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...ifferent+drive
I also thought it would be as simple as setting up the accounts and the group and assigning the folder privileges. I'll have a go at doing the Samba and get back to you.
Thanks again for the really quick and helpful support. You guys even put Ryan Rempel in the shade - glad I found this site.
Robert
I don't know how to see from another mac if i'm logging in via Samba or AFP. When I log in from another mac as normal user, I get the home folders, as an admin user I get the drives - does that mean it's Samba? As for the PCs, I'll ask here among the XP users.
The extra Panther systems are not there to boot from, they're just there so that user folders are set up on the relevant drives. On Old World Macs it's anyway a bit complicated as the boot system has to be within the first 8GB of the drive, so on a separate, 7,8GB first partition. That's not enough space to put all the drive content in the user folder from - therefore the workaround. Similarly for the FW drive. As I say it's a messy method to avoid hitting the command line. Other alternatives for moving home directories off the boot drive are here (I've just havn't had the time to try them out):
http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18789
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...ifferent+drive
I also thought it would be as simple as setting up the accounts and the group and assigning the folder privileges. I'll have a go at doing the Samba and get back to you.
Thanks again for the really quick and helpful support. You guys even put Ryan Rempel in the shade - glad I found this site.
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 16, 2005 - 6:22 am
Hi Robert,
If you press command+k in Finder, and just type in your server address (e.g. 192.168.1.123), then by default Mac OS X connects via AFP. You need to do it with either smb://192.168.1.123 or cifs://192.168.1.123 to use samba. Also, don't forget to turn Windows Sharing (=Samba) on in Sharing in System Preference.
The most elegant solution really is to do everything with Samba, so have a good look at that link and let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
If you press command+k in Finder, and just type in your server address (e.g. 192.168.1.123), then by default Mac OS X connects via AFP. You need to do it with either smb://192.168.1.123 or cifs://192.168.1.123 to use samba. Also, don't forget to turn Windows Sharing (=Samba) on in Sharing in System Preference.
The most elegant solution really is to do everything with Samba, so have a good look at that link and let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jun 16, 2005 - 7:03 am
Charlie,
I go through the network on a mac using the Finder window (sidebar) Network>Computername>Connect. Is this also the default (AFP) method?
Is cmd-K the only way to connect via Samba. If so, to avoid typing in IP addresses all the time (they're dynamic), do you connect once with the shortname of the computer (eg.smb://shortname.local (or .com)) and save as a favorite? Or fix the IP address in System prefs as discussed and connect once using the address, save as favorite etc.? My collegues are even less network savvy than me so it's got to be simple!
Robert
I go through the network on a mac using the Finder window (sidebar) Network>Computername>Connect. Is this also the default (AFP) method?
Is cmd-K the only way to connect via Samba. If so, to avoid typing in IP addresses all the time (they're dynamic), do you connect once with the shortname of the computer (eg.smb://shortname.local (or .com)) and save as a favorite? Or fix the IP address in System prefs as discussed and connect once using the address, save as favorite etc.? My collegues are even less network savvy than me so it's got to be simple!
Robert
Saxphile - Jun 16, 2005 - 5:41 pm
Hi Robert,
Saving smb://shorname.local as a favorite is the way to go.
Also, it crossed my mind that you could just use ftp to do everything. There are a few very good ftp clients out there, and the server is substantially easier to setup than samba. Finder has shaky support for ftp, but it is still usable. In case of very large files, ftp might be slightly faster, too.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Saving smb://shorname.local as a favorite is the way to go.
Also, it crossed my mind that you could just use ftp to do everything. There are a few very good ftp clients out there, and the server is substantially easier to setup than samba. Finder has shaky support for ftp, but it is still usable. In case of very large files, ftp might be slightly faster, too.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 8, 2005 - 6:15 am
Charlie,
Hello again,
Since my last reply, I've tried the things suggested by yourself and the links referred to - all without success. Here's a summary:
Printing from PC to shared printer on Mac:
- choosing generic ppd didn't work file spooled to printer on pc but didn't appear on the mac's printer spooler
- setting up CUPS printer on mac. Tried to do it through the UNIX interface (from browser with :631 address) but the programme told me I hadn't the right privileges to add a printer (logged in as root!). Managed to generate a new printer with System prefs/Print and Fax/set up printers/add/IP Printing+LPD/LPR etc. The PC could find it but the same problem with spooling - it didn't arrive on the mac's printer spooler.
- One link described editing /etc/smb.conf using pico. I did that but it didn't make any difference.
So I'm stumped.
Sharing Mac HD for PCs.
- Can't seem to connect using Samba.From Mac to PCs, I always get an error code -36 "...some data in smb://xxx.local could not be read or written". From Mac to Mac I get error code -50 "unexpected error" or -36 again.
- The other link you pointed me to to edit etc/smb.conf was a bit difficult to follow. I suppose the author's talking about editing it using pico but he doesn't say so. The other thing is it seems to describe how to make one folder shareable - but it's not clear if all the folders within that would take the same settings - I imagine not. To go through my whole drive making separate shares for each folder would take me a lifetime!!. I found a donationware called SharePoints which lets you do what seems to be the same thing, but the created shares only apply to the uppermost folder in the hierarchy. So no dice.
Any more ideas?
Robert
Hello again,
Since my last reply, I've tried the things suggested by yourself and the links referred to - all without success. Here's a summary:
Printing from PC to shared printer on Mac:
- choosing generic ppd didn't work file spooled to printer on pc but didn't appear on the mac's printer spooler
- setting up CUPS printer on mac. Tried to do it through the UNIX interface (from browser with :631 address) but the programme told me I hadn't the right privileges to add a printer (logged in as root!). Managed to generate a new printer with System prefs/Print and Fax/set up printers/add/IP Printing+LPD/LPR etc. The PC could find it but the same problem with spooling - it didn't arrive on the mac's printer spooler.
- One link described editing /etc/smb.conf using pico. I did that but it didn't make any difference.
So I'm stumped.
Sharing Mac HD for PCs.
- Can't seem to connect using Samba.From Mac to PCs, I always get an error code -36 "...some data in smb://xxx.local could not be read or written". From Mac to Mac I get error code -50 "unexpected error" or -36 again.
- The other link you pointed me to to edit etc/smb.conf was a bit difficult to follow. I suppose the author's talking about editing it using pico but he doesn't say so. The other thing is it seems to describe how to make one folder shareable - but it's not clear if all the folders within that would take the same settings - I imagine not. To go through my whole drive making separate shares for each folder would take me a lifetime!!. I found a donationware called SharePoints which lets you do what seems to be the same thing, but the created shares only apply to the uppermost folder in the hierarchy. So no dice.
Any more ideas?
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 10, 2005 - 9:43 pm
Hi Robert,
One thing I never asked is the model of the printer - what do you have? It might not have much to do with the sharing problem, but it's worth a shot. Also, have you considered using a dedicated printer server (e.g. Airport Express)? They (generic ones) can be had for as little as $30.
I actually tried SharePoint a while ago, but I couldn't get it to work properly, either. But before you dig into this, make sure the default SAMBA connection works between your PCs and the Mac. The errors you're getting doesn't sound like a folder settings issue. If possible, delete all the SAMBA settings and start with the OS defaults. Make sure this part works before you try any advanced stuff.
Lastly, perhaps you already did this, but have a read here:
http://www.osxguide.com/modules.php?...&mode=&order=0
The ultimate solution to all this, and I probably don't have much else to offer, is to install a copy of SAMBA manually on your Mac. See here:
http://developer.apple.com/documenta...b/osx_smb.html
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
One thing I never asked is the model of the printer - what do you have? It might not have much to do with the sharing problem, but it's worth a shot. Also, have you considered using a dedicated printer server (e.g. Airport Express)? They (generic ones) can be had for as little as $30.
I actually tried SharePoint a while ago, but I couldn't get it to work properly, either. But before you dig into this, make sure the default SAMBA connection works between your PCs and the Mac. The errors you're getting doesn't sound like a folder settings issue. If possible, delete all the SAMBA settings and start with the OS defaults. Make sure this part works before you try any advanced stuff.
Lastly, perhaps you already did this, but have a read here:
http://www.osxguide.com/modules.php?...&mode=&order=0
The ultimate solution to all this, and I probably don't have much else to offer, is to install a copy of SAMBA manually on your Mac. See here:
http://developer.apple.com/documenta...b/osx_smb.html
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 11, 2005 - 2:38 pm
Charlie,
The printer is an Epson SP1290. A collegue on the same LAN net has used a print server with gimp-print but has had lots of problems setting it up - do you think it's easier than going through the mac?
How do I delete the Samba settings (presumably with pico?) - sorry, but I don't want to mess anything up with Terminal ignorance.
Here's what I thought of doing - let me know if there's a hole in the logic.
1. Create a new folder "Shared" at root level
2. Set up Share using Sharepoints for all staff users
3. Select the upper level folder containing all the files I want to share (which are in various sub-folders).
4. Using the Info window give staff group read and write access to this folder and click "apply to enclosed items..."
5. Move the upper level folder into the shared folder.
Am I right in assuming that then all staff in the staff group logging in with their own passwords would see and be able to access the entire contents of the shared folder?
Robert
The printer is an Epson SP1290. A collegue on the same LAN net has used a print server with gimp-print but has had lots of problems setting it up - do you think it's easier than going through the mac?
How do I delete the Samba settings (presumably with pico?) - sorry, but I don't want to mess anything up with Terminal ignorance.
Here's what I thought of doing - let me know if there's a hole in the logic.
1. Create a new folder "Shared" at root level
2. Set up Share using Sharepoints for all staff users
3. Select the upper level folder containing all the files I want to share (which are in various sub-folders).
4. Using the Info window give staff group read and write access to this folder and click "apply to enclosed items..."
5. Move the upper level folder into the shared folder.
Am I right in assuming that then all staff in the staff group logging in with their own passwords would see and be able to access the entire contents of the shared folder?
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 11, 2005 - 8:15 pm
Hi Robert,
When I spoke of printer server, I really had Airport Express in mind. I have one myself and it works really well. Mac users don't even have to set it up - the computer sees it through Boujour automatically. If you're not sure, buy one from a brick-and-mortar store near by, and return it if it doesn't work like I said.
Your SAMBA setting sounds fine, but if you can't get a connection obviously you can't try it out. To wipe SAMBA settings, do this in Terminal (turn off Windows Sharing in System Preferences first):
sudo mv /etc/smb.conf /etc/smb_backup.conf and reboot.
Let me know if you need more help.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
When I spoke of printer server, I really had Airport Express in mind. I have one myself and it works really well. Mac users don't even have to set it up - the computer sees it through Boujour automatically. If you're not sure, buy one from a brick-and-mortar store near by, and return it if it doesn't work like I said.
Your SAMBA setting sounds fine, but if you can't get a connection obviously you can't try it out. To wipe SAMBA settings, do this in Terminal (turn off Windows Sharing in System Preferences first):
sudo mv /etc/smb.conf /etc/smb_backup.conf and reboot.
Let me know if you need more help.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 12, 2005 - 4:10 am
Charlie,
Will do.
I noticed you can get Bonjour for Windows. Could that sort me out? I'm assuming Bonjour (isn't that the same as Rendezvous?) is anyway the means through which the macs talk to each other in Panther.
Robert
Will do.
I noticed you can get Bonjour for Windows. Could that sort me out? I'm assuming Bonjour (isn't that the same as Rendezvous?) is anyway the means through which the macs talk to each other in Panther.
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 12, 2005 - 4:24 am
Hi Robert,
Bonjour is Rendezvous. Apple got sued and had to change the name, but it's the same technology. I never tried Bonjour for Windows (setting up IP print in Windows for Airport Express is very easy), but it should automate the printer selection process for you. I don't think it'd help with your Samba problem, however.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Bonjour is Rendezvous. Apple got sued and had to change the name, but it's the same technology. I never tried Bonjour for Windows (setting up IP print in Windows for Airport Express is very easy), but it should automate the printer selection process for you. I don't think it'd help with your Samba problem, however.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 12, 2005 - 5:05 am
Reset Samba as advised - no change. No connection either mac->mac or mac->PC - get error 36 every time.
Robert
Robert
robert_s - Jul 12, 2005 - 11:19 am
Getting closer.
Have set up share with SharePoints (r+w access for the office-member group) and moved the files to be shared into it (after changing access privilages in info window). These is now accessible for non-admin mac users in the staff group. So far, so good.
The problem of PC access remains. Clearly it's a Samba thing. When I click on the network globe in the finder window, some macs appear with their names in lower case (afp accessible) and others (1 from our office and a couple of macs from the neighbours on the LAN) appear twice, once in lowercase and again in capitals (SMB - when you click it you get the SMB/CIFS Filesystem authentication window). From a PC, the computers where SMB connection is possible are accessible, logically enough. Unfortunately, SMB doesn't appear to be working on the server .
I supposed the problem could lie in the smb.conf file, so I compared two files with pico, one from the server and another from a mac which could be accessed through SMB.
On the server smb.conf (no SMB) read as follows:
[global]
guest account = unknown
encrypt passwords = yes
auth methods = guest opendirectory
passdb backend = opendirectorysam guest
printer admin = @admin, @staff
server string = COMPUTERNAME
unix charset = UTF-8-MAC
display charset = UTF-8-MAC
dos charset = CP437
use spnego = yes
client ntlmv2 auth = no
os level = 8
defer sharing violations = no
vfs objects = darwin_acls
brlm = yes
map to guest = Never
security = SHARE
local master = yes
hide dot files = no
netbios name = COMPUTERNAME
workgroup = WORKGROUP
[homes]
comment = User Home Directories
browseable = yes
read only = no
;[public]
;path = /tmp
;public = yes
;only guest = yes
;writable = yes
;printable = no
[printers]
path = /tmp
printable = yes
[Office_Shared]
path = /Volumes/HD_NAME/Office_Shared
read only = No
inherit permissions = No
guest ok = Yes
;Created by SharePoints
On the other Mac (accessible through SMB) smb.conf reads:
[global]
guest account = unknown
encrypt passwords = yes
auth methods = guest opendirectory
passdb backend = opendirectorysam guest
printer admin = @admin, @staff
server string = Mac OS X
unix charset = UTF-8-MAC
display charset = UTF-8-MAC
dos charset = 437
use spnego = no
client ntlmv2 auth = no
[homes]
comment = User Home Directories
browseable = no
read only = no
;[public]
; path = /tmp
; public = yes
; only guest = yes
; writable = yes
; printable = no
[printers]
path = /tmp
printable = yes
The Share from SharePoints appears of course - Office_Shared is the folder I spoke about. The NetBios stuff is also something I put in through SharePoints. The only difference I could see was the line:
use spnego = yes
I changed the setting on the server from yes to no but that made no difference. I don't really want to mess around any more without knowing what I'm doing. I reset smb.conf as you advised on all the computers so i don't think that will help either, unless I missed something.
Any ideas?
Tried installing Bonjour for Windows on the PC but that hasn't helped - either for the printer or the network access.
Robert
Have set up share with SharePoints (r+w access for the office-member group) and moved the files to be shared into it (after changing access privilages in info window). These is now accessible for non-admin mac users in the staff group. So far, so good.
The problem of PC access remains. Clearly it's a Samba thing. When I click on the network globe in the finder window, some macs appear with their names in lower case (afp accessible) and others (1 from our office and a couple of macs from the neighbours on the LAN) appear twice, once in lowercase and again in capitals (SMB - when you click it you get the SMB/CIFS Filesystem authentication window). From a PC, the computers where SMB connection is possible are accessible, logically enough. Unfortunately, SMB doesn't appear to be working on the server .
I supposed the problem could lie in the smb.conf file, so I compared two files with pico, one from the server and another from a mac which could be accessed through SMB.
On the server smb.conf (no SMB) read as follows:
[global]
guest account = unknown
encrypt passwords = yes
auth methods = guest opendirectory
passdb backend = opendirectorysam guest
printer admin = @admin, @staff
server string = COMPUTERNAME
unix charset = UTF-8-MAC
display charset = UTF-8-MAC
dos charset = CP437
use spnego = yes
client ntlmv2 auth = no
os level = 8
defer sharing violations = no
vfs objects = darwin_acls
brlm = yes
map to guest = Never
security = SHARE
local master = yes
hide dot files = no
netbios name = COMPUTERNAME
workgroup = WORKGROUP
[homes]
comment = User Home Directories
browseable = yes
read only = no
;[public]
;path = /tmp
;public = yes
;only guest = yes
;writable = yes
;printable = no
[printers]
path = /tmp
printable = yes
[Office_Shared]
path = /Volumes/HD_NAME/Office_Shared
read only = No
inherit permissions = No
guest ok = Yes
;Created by SharePoints
On the other Mac (accessible through SMB) smb.conf reads:
[global]
guest account = unknown
encrypt passwords = yes
auth methods = guest opendirectory
passdb backend = opendirectorysam guest
printer admin = @admin, @staff
server string = Mac OS X
unix charset = UTF-8-MAC
display charset = UTF-8-MAC
dos charset = 437
use spnego = no
client ntlmv2 auth = no
[homes]
comment = User Home Directories
browseable = no
read only = no
;[public]
; path = /tmp
; public = yes
; only guest = yes
; writable = yes
; printable = no
[printers]
path = /tmp
printable = yes
The Share from SharePoints appears of course - Office_Shared is the folder I spoke about. The NetBios stuff is also something I put in through SharePoints. The only difference I could see was the line:
use spnego = yes
I changed the setting on the server from yes to no but that made no difference. I don't really want to mess around any more without knowing what I'm doing. I reset smb.conf as you advised on all the computers so i don't think that will help either, unless I missed something.
Any ideas?
Tried installing Bonjour for Windows on the PC but that hasn't helped - either for the printer or the network access.
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 12, 2005 - 4:29 pm
Hi Robert,
Spnego is just an authorization protocol and unlikely the culprit here. It sounds like you've done the Samba settings correctly, and I wouldn't mess with that for now. I'm assuming that you can access the server via Samba from other Macs? If so, try accessing the server on Windows by typing this in the address bar in a Explorer window:
\\server IP address\
Bonjour would help only if you have Bonjour-compatible devices on the network (i.e. Airport Express). Unfortunately, only AFP works with Bonjour and not Rendezvous (I think).
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Spnego is just an authorization protocol and unlikely the culprit here. It sounds like you've done the Samba settings correctly, and I wouldn't mess with that for now. I'm assuming that you can access the server via Samba from other Macs? If so, try accessing the server on Windows by typing this in the address bar in a Explorer window:
\\server IP address\
Bonjour would help only if you have Bonjour-compatible devices on the network (i.e. Airport Express). Unfortunately, only AFP works with Bonjour and not Rendezvous (I think).
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 13, 2005 - 4:11 am
That's the thing. When I try to access the server from my laptop (the only one which has caspitalised (SMB) link in the network list) via Samba(ie using cmd-K), I get an error 43 message(one or more required items cannot be found).
When I go to the server and click on the capitalised link for the laptop using the network list (ie in the opposite direction), I get the Samba dialogue window, but when I try to log in, it tells me that the alias cannot be opened because the original item cannot be found. Using cmd-K from the server gives me SMB dialogue window again, but when I try to connect to the laptop, I get error 50 (unknown error).
As described, the PC can access the laptop perfectly, but not the server or any other mac.
Robert
When I go to the server and click on the capitalised link for the laptop using the network list (ie in the opposite direction), I get the Samba dialogue window, but when I try to log in, it tells me that the alias cannot be opened because the original item cannot be found. Using cmd-K from the server gives me SMB dialogue window again, but when I try to connect to the laptop, I get error 50 (unknown error).
As described, the PC can access the laptop perfectly, but not the server or any other mac.
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 13, 2005 - 6:01 am
Hi Robert,
I'm beginning to think either your network hardware or the lack of a DHCP server is the root of the problem. Can you describe to me in detail your setup?
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
I'm beginning to think either your network hardware or the lack of a DHCP server is the root of the problem. Can you describe to me in detail your setup?
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 13, 2005 - 6:47 am
There is a proprietary DSL setup from Deutsche Telekom (2 boxes a little one which is called I think an NTBBA, and a bigger one which I guess is the router), with SOHO switches connected in series from the router, uplinking one after the other. That's it. There's about 20 computers in total connected to the LAN network. Hope that's enough.
Thanks,
Robert
Thanks,
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 14, 2005 - 7:20 am
Hi Robert,
You network configuration sounds pretty good. However, can you verify for me that all your computers are under the same subnet? If you're not sure what that means, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subnetwork
For your XP machines, trying turning off simple file sharing. To do this, go to Tools-->Folder Options--View Tab, at the bottom, uncheck simple file sharing. Click apply to all folders.
Also, make sure all your Mac have really simple computer names (System Preferences -> Sharing) like PB1 or PM1. Long names with spaces and special characters can often cause trouble. When connecting from Windows machines to a Mac, try \\ip address\ rather than \\hostname\.
Let me know if this helps.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
You network configuration sounds pretty good. However, can you verify for me that all your computers are under the same subnet? If you're not sure what that means, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subnetwork
For your XP machines, trying turning off simple file sharing. To do this, go to Tools-->Folder Options--View Tab, at the bottom, uncheck simple file sharing. Click apply to all folders.
Also, make sure all your Mac have really simple computer names (System Preferences -> Sharing) like PB1 or PM1. Long names with spaces and special characters can often cause trouble. When connecting from Windows machines to a Mac, try \\ip address\ rather than \\hostname\.
Let me know if this helps.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
robert_s - Jul 20, 2005 - 8:06 am
Charlie,
All computers are on same subnet.
Can't find the XP "Simple File Sharing" tab you meant - in Folder options everything seemed to relate to the appearence of folders but not sharing.
The problem Mac -> PC and Mac -> Mac via Samba persists.
Mac -> Mac I get the SMB login window, then an error message at login.
Mac -> PC the PC SMB name appears, but when I try to login it tells me that the original to which the alias refers is not available. Using cmd+K and smb://ip address or smb://localhost.local I get an error message. This is the same from all macs to the PCs.
All names are short and without dashes or spaces.
PC - > Mac via \\ip address\ works as does \\hostname\, but only from the PCs to macs OTHER than the Server. There is clearly a problem which applies only to the server machine and not to the others. Have tried resetting SMB and deleting the Share, no effect - could that have something to do with Old World / New World issues (it's a beige G3) and Panther?
No idea what next. Thanks for any ideas.
Robert
All computers are on same subnet.
Can't find the XP "Simple File Sharing" tab you meant - in Folder options everything seemed to relate to the appearence of folders but not sharing.
The problem Mac -> PC and Mac -> Mac via Samba persists.
Mac -> Mac I get the SMB login window, then an error message at login.
Mac -> PC the PC SMB name appears, but when I try to login it tells me that the original to which the alias refers is not available. Using cmd+K and smb://ip address or smb://localhost.local I get an error message. This is the same from all macs to the PCs.
All names are short and without dashes or spaces.
PC - > Mac via \\ip address\ works as does \\hostname\, but only from the PCs to macs OTHER than the Server. There is clearly a problem which applies only to the server machine and not to the others. Have tried resetting SMB and deleting the Share, no effect - could that have something to do with Old World / New World issues (it's a beige G3) and Panther?
No idea what next. Thanks for any ideas.
Robert
Saxphile - Jul 22, 2005 - 12:45 am
Hi Robert,
In XP, open an explorer windows -> Folder options -> View -> Advanced option -> Simple file sharing (at the bottom). I'm not sure if this would help, but try it anyway.
Try using cifs:// instead of smb://. They are supposedly the same thing, but what the hell. For Mac <-> Mac if Samba doesn't work, then why not try AFP? To be honest Mac OS X doesn't have the best Samba support, especially when it comes to sharing. Instead of getting stuck with a solution that might work, I think it's more important to allow you to do your work.
If you can't get the server to work with Samba, then perhap FTP would be a good idea. It'd put less burden on the server as well. You've tried the elegant solution and it doesn't work, so perhaps you should try something different.
Let me know if you have questions.
Charlie
BTW, I found this and thought it might be useful:
http://www.apple.com/business/mac_pc/tutorials.html
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
In XP, open an explorer windows -> Folder options -> View -> Advanced option -> Simple file sharing (at the bottom). I'm not sure if this would help, but try it anyway.
Try using cifs:// instead of smb://. They are supposedly the same thing, but what the hell. For Mac <-> Mac if Samba doesn't work, then why not try AFP? To be honest Mac OS X doesn't have the best Samba support, especially when it comes to sharing. Instead of getting stuck with a solution that might work, I think it's more important to allow you to do your work.
If you can't get the server to work with Samba, then perhap FTP would be a good idea. It'd put less burden on the server as well. You've tried the elegant solution and it doesn't work, so perhaps you should try something different.
Let me know if you have questions.
Charlie
BTW, I found this and thought it might be useful:
http://www.apple.com/business/mac_pc/tutorials.html
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
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