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TICKET ARCHIVE -> sos disk message
reed - Jul 6, 2006 - 3:21 pm
Mac 350/9.2.2/Prodisc Alu Combo 80/extern
SOS Disk (disque) tells me in red: "keys out of order,4,1304."
"Can't correct but décelés, etc."
I tried to correct many times but I always get the same message and the verification stops there. Is this serious? I re-started, etc.
Norton Disk Doctor says all is okay.
Any ideas what this means?
Many thanks.
SOS Disk (disque) tells me in red: "keys out of order,4,1304."
"Can't correct but décelés, etc."
I tried to correct many times but I always get the same message and the verification stops there. Is this serious? I re-started, etc.
Norton Disk Doctor says all is okay.
Any ideas what this means?
Many thanks.
philippe99 - Jul 7, 2006 - 6:36 am
Hi and welcome back to macosx.com
The message indicates that something is going wrong with the Catalog, the table where the OS record all the files characteristics (position on the drive, ..)
The key referred to is a means by which the disk directory refers to a file. It consists of the name of the file and the ID number of the folder containing it. A damaged key produces the diagnosis “keys out of order”. A keys out of order problem can involve two files that are inconsequential, such as invisible icon files, or it can involve essential files. The consequences can range from nothing to disaster.
This is a software issue, not a hardware
The best -but not free tool, so I do not want to force you to buy this tool- for trying to repair this situation (I say 'try') is DiskWarrior
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/
If this failed, be prepared to a complete backup, then an erase of the drive and a re-install of the OS and related file (if you do not have tons of programs, that the thing I would do if I'm sure having all the serials/discs of applications/updates under my hand)
NortonDiskDoctor is as all Symantec products: when it says "ok", you're are not sure at all it has detected nothing; when it says "corrected", it is too late.. ;-)
Phil
The message indicates that something is going wrong with the Catalog, the table where the OS record all the files characteristics (position on the drive, ..)
The key referred to is a means by which the disk directory refers to a file. It consists of the name of the file and the ID number of the folder containing it. A damaged key produces the diagnosis “keys out of order”. A keys out of order problem can involve two files that are inconsequential, such as invisible icon files, or it can involve essential files. The consequences can range from nothing to disaster.
This is a software issue, not a hardware
The best -but not free tool, so I do not want to force you to buy this tool- for trying to repair this situation (I say 'try') is DiskWarrior
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/
If this failed, be prepared to a complete backup, then an erase of the drive and a re-install of the OS and related file (if you do not have tons of programs, that the thing I would do if I'm sure having all the serials/discs of applications/updates under my hand)
NortonDiskDoctor is as all Symantec products: when it says "ok", you're are not sure at all it has detected nothing; when it says "corrected", it is too late.. ;-)
Phil
reed - Jul 7, 2006 - 7:37 am
Hi Phil,
Many thanks for your quick reply . My goodness, sounds like big poop. I'm not sure I understand everything. Having learned on a French version Mac, some of these terms escape me. A bit half and half ...."mon cul sûr deux chaise, quoi" What sort of files can this come from? I have quite a lot of files on external drive Combo 80, but the applications and other stuff are on OS 9.2.2. Old versions, of course...Illustrator,Quarke, Microsoft Office ( unstable and always needs memory!!), Adobe, photoshop. Maybe there are too many things and certain conflicts. In a word....what to throw and what to keep. Sping Cleaning is too dangerous for me. Don't want to chuck important stuff.
I just tried sos Disk and I got another message:
"Invalid sibling Link,4,1219." Not the same thing as before. Strange.
Of course I'll checkout DiskWarrior, but can this old PowerMac 350 handle it?
I'm going to try Norton one more time all the same and ReStart. The SOS once more after. If all is as before, I'll get back to you.
Many thanks Phil. Henry
Many thanks for your quick reply . My goodness, sounds like big poop. I'm not sure I understand everything. Having learned on a French version Mac, some of these terms escape me. A bit half and half ...."mon cul sûr deux chaise, quoi" What sort of files can this come from? I have quite a lot of files on external drive Combo 80, but the applications and other stuff are on OS 9.2.2. Old versions, of course...Illustrator,Quarke, Microsoft Office ( unstable and always needs memory!!), Adobe, photoshop. Maybe there are too many things and certain conflicts. In a word....what to throw and what to keep. Sping Cleaning is too dangerous for me. Don't want to chuck important stuff.
I just tried sos Disk and I got another message:
"Invalid sibling Link,4,1219." Not the same thing as before. Strange.
Of course I'll checkout DiskWarrior, but can this old PowerMac 350 handle it?
I'm going to try Norton one more time all the same and ReStart. The SOS once more after. If all is as before, I'll get back to you.
Many thanks Phil. Henry
reed - Jul 7, 2006 - 11:09 am
Phil,
This is what happened since my last response: I did Norton DiskDoctor again and this is what it came up with (talk about things I don't understand):
"Noeud 1219. Un Noeud feuille dans le B-tree de catalogues.
Le noeud a un lien incorrect...." I'd send you the "Rapport Disk Doctor" if I could to give you a better idea, but I don't know how to do this.
This is what you were talking about in terms of "catalogue"
ANYWAY............
It repaired this problem. I Re-started. Then did SOS Disk which now says all is okay.
Could you explain to me what all this means and where it comes from? The internet? Or conflicts? Or what? etc..
In any case Philippe, thanks for help. Tops. Hope all is well, Henry
This is what happened since my last response: I did Norton DiskDoctor again and this is what it came up with (talk about things I don't understand):
"Noeud 1219. Un Noeud feuille dans le B-tree de catalogues.
Le noeud a un lien incorrect...." I'd send you the "Rapport Disk Doctor" if I could to give you a better idea, but I don't know how to do this.
This is what you were talking about in terms of "catalogue"
ANYWAY............
It repaired this problem. I Re-started. Then did SOS Disk which now says all is okay.
Could you explain to me what all this means and where it comes from? The internet? Or conflicts? Or what? etc..
In any case Philippe, thanks for help. Tops. Hope all is well, Henry
philippe99 - Jul 7, 2006 - 11:16 am
(1) the Catalog records the file (and same rule for directory) with a key: a pair (id,foldername-well full folder pathname-). Sometimes the Catalog is corrupted (the greatest applications which damage the Catalog on 9.2 were some Firewir extensions..and iTunes-the original version for 9.x-)
When, within a pair, an ID lost its "folder name", or a folder name lost its ID, the corruption is !
(2) yes, I think that the DW 2.x, which run on 8.x->9.x, will handle it; it was the case on my PM6320..
(3) In the past, here in Belgium, I was a free helpdesk man for all the Macs in Education system -well, all people around me are teachers-; using DW, I repair many Macs which had the same error. But, to be honest, one -I remember very well, it was the master imac in my wife's classroom- was not repaired by DW and the school was forced to call Apple for changing the drive.
So, yes , DW is the most powerfull, but when it fails, I do not know any other tool that can go ahead
Phil
When, within a pair, an ID lost its "folder name", or a folder name lost its ID, the corruption is !
(2) yes, I think that the DW 2.x, which run on 8.x->9.x, will handle it; it was the case on my PM6320..
(3) In the past, here in Belgium, I was a free helpdesk man for all the Macs in Education system -well, all people around me are teachers-; using DW, I repair many Macs which had the same error. But, to be honest, one -I remember very well, it was the master imac in my wife's classroom- was not repaired by DW and the school was forced to call Apple for changing the drive.
So, yes , DW is the most powerfull, but when it fails, I do not know any other tool that can go ahead
Phil
reed - Jul 7, 2006 - 12:02 pm
Phil,
So it's a question of folders? Loss of ID? Please explain if you can to a dope like me. I didn't name a folder? What are firwire extensions? I have no iTunes. With this old machine? You must be kidding. Extensions have always been my bete noir!
Norton DiskDoctor did its job but for how long?
In your wife's school did they have a lot "use" maybe? Is it a question of age, programing, "use" or all three?
I'll keep an eye on the DW and follow your advice.
Merci Phil,
Henry
PS what is a PM6320?.........goes to show you.
So it's a question of folders? Loss of ID? Please explain if you can to a dope like me. I didn't name a folder? What are firwire extensions? I have no iTunes. With this old machine? You must be kidding. Extensions have always been my bete noir!
Norton DiskDoctor did its job but for how long?
In your wife's school did they have a lot "use" maybe? Is it a question of age, programing, "use" or all three?
I'll keep an eye on the DW and follow your advice.
Merci Phil,
Henry
PS what is a PM6320?.........goes to show you.
philippe99 - Jul 7, 2006 - 2:17 pm
First of all, great that the issue seems to be solved; using Norton tools, I can say it is a miracle
(1) about ID
Let's take a comparison... do you play Lottery ?
When you register a game, you go to a shop; the shop's computer register your draw and give you a ticket with an unique ID
The National Lottery Agency knows now that this ID matches a serie of numbers: the draw. But the agency does not know your name, the village you live in.. well for them, your are a Number
Now....another miracle ;-)... you win....but, scatterbrain you are ;-)... you lost your ticket...
The 1 billion dollars is there..in the vault...
You know that you've won, because you defintivly remember the draw you've played.
The Lotto Agency is claiming that "ID xxx can come to retrieve the billion" but she does not know that's Henry the winner. But without the ticket, without the ID, you cannot retrieve the billion.
If you claimed "I'm the guy who played 1 2 45 6 7..they will laugh: 'Many people ("many applications") in the country can have played the same draw("can have save this file's contents"), but this winning draw is attached to a unique registered ID... Hey, man.. show me the ticket, I'll open the vault !'
While all the village ("the other files, the other applications") knows that this ID (showed on TV) can open the vault..
While they know that THIS billion("the file contents") is unreachable...
While they will continue to live ("to run, to save data") because they are not directly impacted by your problem (because they do not need to access the billion in the vault)..
you ("the disk Catalog supervisor") slowly becomes mad because you know that somewhere a billion is awaiting you but you no longer have this dmned ticket to reach it..
(2) about iTunes / Firewire extension
In my database -in which I collect the most relevant problem related to Mac and their solutions-, I found two occurences related to repeted catalogue corruption: * Itunes 1.0, the fist -and only- Itunes release for os 9.x -release no longer available-
*Firewire extension used to handle external firewire drives: the record in my database speaks about FW extension installed by old maxtor Firewire drive
(3) PM6320
http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/6320.shtml
Phil
(1) about ID
Let's take a comparison... do you play Lottery ?
When you register a game, you go to a shop; the shop's computer register your draw and give you a ticket with an unique ID
The National Lottery Agency knows now that this ID matches a serie of numbers: the draw. But the agency does not know your name, the village you live in.. well for them, your are a Number
Now....another miracle ;-)... you win....but, scatterbrain you are ;-)... you lost your ticket...
The 1 billion dollars is there..in the vault...
You know that you've won, because you defintivly remember the draw you've played.
The Lotto Agency is claiming that "ID xxx can come to retrieve the billion" but she does not know that's Henry the winner. But without the ticket, without the ID, you cannot retrieve the billion.
If you claimed "I'm the guy who played 1 2 45 6 7..they will laugh: 'Many people ("many applications") in the country can have played the same draw("can have save this file's contents"), but this winning draw is attached to a unique registered ID... Hey, man.. show me the ticket, I'll open the vault !'
While all the village ("the other files, the other applications") knows that this ID (showed on TV) can open the vault..
While they know that THIS billion("the file contents") is unreachable...
While they will continue to live ("to run, to save data") because they are not directly impacted by your problem (because they do not need to access the billion in the vault)..
you ("the disk Catalog supervisor") slowly becomes mad because you know that somewhere a billion is awaiting you but you no longer have this dmned ticket to reach it..
(2) about iTunes / Firewire extension
In my database -in which I collect the most relevant problem related to Mac and their solutions-, I found two occurences related to repeted catalogue corruption: * Itunes 1.0, the fist -and only- Itunes release for os 9.x -release no longer available-
*Firewire extension used to handle external firewire drives: the record in my database speaks about FW extension installed by old maxtor Firewire drive
(3) PM6320
http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/6320.shtml
Phil
reed - Jul 7, 2006 - 5:26 pm
Phil,
What a riot.
I keep all my lotto tickets in a drawer. Not on a desktop otherwise my cat may play with them and they are chewed up and gone forever. The computor is another story.Thanks for the clear explaination. Perfect for a knucklehead. What should I look out for however?
Yes, it is a miracle but Norton did save my bacon, and this isn't the first time. I don't why it said everything was okay yesterday and today he found the "grave problem" and corrected it.
I'm not sure yet about the firewire , I'll look deeper to see but there are no iTunes 1.0 chez moi.
I'll checkout # (3).
Many thanks Phil. As usual you come through clear as a bell. You should contribute to "Mac for Dummies."
While you're there, what is the best way to get rid of usless or repetative applications/folders, etc. As I said Spring Cleaning looks effeciant but I'm always afraid to trash something essential. I'd like to lighten up my principle drive (the external one is for photos, etc. and other heavy folders).Any gimmicks or shortcuts up your sleeve?
Phil, Merci beaucoup et A+, Henry
What a riot.
I keep all my lotto tickets in a drawer. Not on a desktop otherwise my cat may play with them and they are chewed up and gone forever. The computor is another story.Thanks for the clear explaination. Perfect for a knucklehead. What should I look out for however?
Yes, it is a miracle but Norton did save my bacon, and this isn't the first time. I don't why it said everything was okay yesterday and today he found the "grave problem" and corrected it.
I'm not sure yet about the firewire , I'll look deeper to see but there are no iTunes 1.0 chez moi.
I'll checkout # (3).
Many thanks Phil. As usual you come through clear as a bell. You should contribute to "Mac for Dummies."
While you're there, what is the best way to get rid of usless or repetative applications/folders, etc. As I said Spring Cleaning looks effeciant but I'm always afraid to trash something essential. I'd like to lighten up my principle drive (the external one is for photos, etc. and other heavy folders).Any gimmicks or shortcuts up your sleeve?
Phil, Merci beaucoup et A+, Henry
philippe99 - Jul 8, 2006 - 1:37 am
(1) about the drive
I'll pass the check (SOS Disk) on a regular basis: repetitve error indicates a slowly -but surely- dying drive
I -personnaly- do not trust at all on Norton stuff; so, I think, if you can afford one day to by DW 2.x, this tool can be very helpfull
(2) about deleting no longer stuff
I never rely on automatic program.
I weekly a backup of my whole drive on an external drive, then manually delete the application/folder for the main drive;
When on 9.x, I used the freeware InstallerOberver
http://www.macobserver.com/columns/m...st/990802.html
to track change to the system the installation of an application has made
About Extensions folder and Controlpanels folder: when the system is ok, I set a family color to all the items in these folders; when an application install an extension or control panels, the extension will appear by default with no family -no color-,; if something is going wrong in the system after the installation, I can easily find the culprit extension; when all is ok, I set again all the extensions to the family color
Philippe
I'll pass the check (SOS Disk) on a regular basis: repetitve error indicates a slowly -but surely- dying drive
I -personnaly- do not trust at all on Norton stuff; so, I think, if you can afford one day to by DW 2.x, this tool can be very helpfull
(2) about deleting no longer stuff
I never rely on automatic program.
I weekly a backup of my whole drive on an external drive, then manually delete the application/folder for the main drive;
When on 9.x, I used the freeware InstallerOberver
http://www.macobserver.com/columns/m...st/990802.html
to track change to the system the installation of an application has made
About Extensions folder and Controlpanels folder: when the system is ok, I set a family color to all the items in these folders; when an application install an extension or control panels, the extension will appear by default with no family -no color-,; if something is going wrong in the system after the installation, I can easily find the culprit extension; when all is ok, I set again all the extensions to the family color
Philippe
reed - Jul 8, 2006 - 3:02 am
Phil,
Yes, I'll get the DiskWarrior. Looks good. And the InstallerObserver just to see what it does.I'll follow your advice for putting everything on external drive and manually deleting. I would never do it automatically. Too risky.
Most folders are colored but those that are not I'll do as you say in order to spot the non-colored ones.Good idea. Makes a lot sense
Well Philippe,you've been a great help. Once again. Many, many thanks.
As I said before, if ever you are in Paris drop me a line and I'll buy you a Leffe.
Take care, Henry
Yes, I'll get the DiskWarrior. Looks good. And the InstallerObserver just to see what it does.I'll follow your advice for putting everything on external drive and manually deleting. I would never do it automatically. Too risky.
Most folders are colored but those that are not I'll do as you say in order to spot the non-colored ones.Good idea. Makes a lot sense
Well Philippe,you've been a great help. Once again. Many, many thanks.
As I said before, if ever you are in Paris drop me a line and I'll buy you a Leffe.
Take care, Henry
philippe99 - Jul 8, 2006 - 1:51 pm
Henry, je serai à l'AppleExpo le 15 et le 16 Septembre; on pourrait se voir pour prendre un pot ?
Phil
Phil
reed - Jul 8, 2006 - 2:22 pm
Hey Philippe,
Great Idea! My E-mail is reed@noos.fr
Drop me a line in early September. I'll mark it all the same. Unless...I have other silly problems. Ha Ha. Take care, And thanks again.
Your humble servant, Henry
Great Idea! My E-mail is reed@noos.fr
Drop me a line in early September. I'll mark it all the same. Unless...I have other silly problems. Ha Ha. Take care, And thanks again.
Your humble servant, Henry
philippe99 - Jul 8, 2006 - 2:42 pm
Waiting to meet you in September.
Regards
Philippe
Regards
Philippe
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