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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Will Upgrading to Tiger Solve Problems With Safari
naomism - Sep 28, 2005 - 3:10 pm
I have a iMAC G4 running 10.3.9. I have been having problems after I updated Safari when notified and now it will no longer open. It was working fine before I updated. I downloaded Mozilla and that will not open either. I was unable to use the Mail program when I upgraded the operating system from 10.2 to 10.3. I can now once again can only use Internet Explorer as my browser as I did with 10.2. I upgraded to 10.3 so I could use Safari. I connect to the internet using DSL. I have not been able to solve the Safari and Mozilla problem and received inadequate responses when I asked for technical help on-line and gave up.
My question to you is if I decide to upgrade to Tiger, will I be carrying all of these problems with me and/or create new ones? Should I just go buy another computer? A Dell perhaps?
My question to you is if I decide to upgrade to Tiger, will I be carrying all of these problems with me and/or create new ones? Should I just go buy another computer? A Dell perhaps?
skapp - Sep 28, 2005 - 3:44 pm
Your problems are likely due to a corrupted system and/or hard drive. Upgrading to Tiger won't help unless you first erase the hard drive. From what you have posted you likely had problems with 10.2 which were not resolved before upgrading to 10.3, which likely made things even worse.
As a start you need to do the following:
Boot from your OS X Installer. Be sure to use the installer for the version of OS X you have installed. After the installer loads select Disk Utility from the Installer menu (or Utilities menu if using Tiger.) After DU loads select your OS X volume from the list on the left, click on the First Aid tab, then click on the Repair Disk button. If DU reports any errors that have been fixed, then re-run Repair Disk until no errors are reported. If no errors are reported click on the Repair Permissions button. Wait until the operation completes, then quit DU and return to the installer. Now shutdown the computer for a couple of minutes and then restart normally.
If DU reports errors it cannot fix, then you will need Disk Warrior (3.0.3 for Tiger) and/or TechTool Pro (4.0.5 for Tiger) to repair the drive. If you don't have either of them or if neither of them can fix the drive, then you will need to reformat the drive and reinstall OS X.
After the above create a new admin user and log into the new account. See if this gets your system back to normal.
As a start you need to do the following:
Boot from your OS X Installer. Be sure to use the installer for the version of OS X you have installed. After the installer loads select Disk Utility from the Installer menu (or Utilities menu if using Tiger.) After DU loads select your OS X volume from the list on the left, click on the First Aid tab, then click on the Repair Disk button. If DU reports any errors that have been fixed, then re-run Repair Disk until no errors are reported. If no errors are reported click on the Repair Permissions button. Wait until the operation completes, then quit DU and return to the installer. Now shutdown the computer for a couple of minutes and then restart normally.
If DU reports errors it cannot fix, then you will need Disk Warrior (3.0.3 for Tiger) and/or TechTool Pro (4.0.5 for Tiger) to repair the drive. If you don't have either of them or if neither of them can fix the drive, then you will need to reformat the drive and reinstall OS X.
After the above create a new admin user and log into the new account. See if this gets your system back to normal.
naomism - Sep 29, 2005 - 6:00 pm
Kevin,
Thank you for your prompt response and your helpful comments. I wish to clarify some issues I have not yet purchased Tiger so cannot use the TechTool Pro or Disk Warrior and from what you have said, it probably does not pay to purchase Tiger. It will just add to my problems.
I was also wrong when I told you that I had ever had 10.2 -- I actually bought the computer with 10.1 - 31/2 years ago and did not upgrade the operating system until last January when I upgraded to Panther (10.3). I was unable to access the Mail program after that even with telephone help, but Safari was not a problem until I tried updating. The first time I updated, I still had telephone support and with help we were able to get Safari working again. I did have a problem using Palm Pilot with the 10.1 system and that problem could not be resolved with telephone support, but had no other problems. I thought the problem was with Palm Pilot and not my system.
Panther came with OS X code tools and two discs which I installed. I also have an AppleCare Protection Disk (TechTool Deluxe which came with the IMAC purchase and probably was meant to be used with 10.1. I had purchased the Apple Care Plan for three years but my problems began after it expired.
Some further questions -- when you say I should boot from the OS X installer, which disk do you mean? -- Panther Disc 1 or 2 or OSX Code tools? If I need to reformat the drive which OS system should I reinstall -- 10.1 or 103.
I am very nervous about all of this and was wondering if Apple recommended technicians and how I can find one close by?
Thank you for your help. Meanwhile I can access the internet through Internet Explorer and DSL. Ironic that I purchased Panther so that I could use Safari. I lost the Mail program when i did so and now Safari.
I appreciate any other information you can add.
Naomi
Thank you for your prompt response and your helpful comments. I wish to clarify some issues I have not yet purchased Tiger so cannot use the TechTool Pro or Disk Warrior and from what you have said, it probably does not pay to purchase Tiger. It will just add to my problems.
I was also wrong when I told you that I had ever had 10.2 -- I actually bought the computer with 10.1 - 31/2 years ago and did not upgrade the operating system until last January when I upgraded to Panther (10.3). I was unable to access the Mail program after that even with telephone help, but Safari was not a problem until I tried updating. The first time I updated, I still had telephone support and with help we were able to get Safari working again. I did have a problem using Palm Pilot with the 10.1 system and that problem could not be resolved with telephone support, but had no other problems. I thought the problem was with Palm Pilot and not my system.
Panther came with OS X code tools and two discs which I installed. I also have an AppleCare Protection Disk (TechTool Deluxe which came with the IMAC purchase and probably was meant to be used with 10.1. I had purchased the Apple Care Plan for three years but my problems began after it expired.
Some further questions -- when you say I should boot from the OS X installer, which disk do you mean? -- Panther Disc 1 or 2 or OSX Code tools? If I need to reformat the drive which OS system should I reinstall -- 10.1 or 103.
I am very nervous about all of this and was wondering if Apple recommended technicians and how I can find one close by?
Thank you for your help. Meanwhile I can access the internet through Internet Explorer and DSL. Ironic that I purchased Panther so that I could use Safari. I lost the Mail program when i did so and now Safari.
I appreciate any other information you can add.
Naomi
skapp - Sep 29, 2005 - 11:38 pm
First, my name is Steven, not Kevin. Second, I can save you a lot of time and aggravation if you give me the correct information on your current system. Now you have me a bit confused.
If I now understand things correctly, it appears that you once had OS X 10.1 installed, then purchase an upgrade to Panther (two disks and Xcode Tools.) Panther is what you currently have installed, but I don't know what version level you installed originally (10.3, I assume) nor what version level you are currently running. Furthermore, you do not own Disk Warrior 3.0.3 nor TechTool Pro 4.0.5. You do have TechTool Deluxe, a version that came with your AppleCare warranty that is now expired. If I am right about this, then here goes:
1. You cannot use the TechTool Deluxe program to repair your hard drive, it is not compatible with Panther.
2. The version of Panther you have is an upgrade version and can only be used if you have a previous version of OS X installed. That means if you erase your hard drive, then you will have to reinstall OS X 10.1 before you can upgrade/reinstall Panther.
3. So, the first thing you need to do is what I already suggested. When I said boot from the OS X Installer, I mean from the Panther Installer Disk 1. I suggest that you first go through the disk and permissions repair I initially recommended, and let's see where that gets us.
If you think you need to have someone else do this for you, then you should locate the nearest Apple store, retailer, or service center and take the computer there for service.
If I now understand things correctly, it appears that you once had OS X 10.1 installed, then purchase an upgrade to Panther (two disks and Xcode Tools.) Panther is what you currently have installed, but I don't know what version level you installed originally (10.3, I assume) nor what version level you are currently running. Furthermore, you do not own Disk Warrior 3.0.3 nor TechTool Pro 4.0.5. You do have TechTool Deluxe, a version that came with your AppleCare warranty that is now expired. If I am right about this, then here goes:
1. You cannot use the TechTool Deluxe program to repair your hard drive, it is not compatible with Panther.
2. The version of Panther you have is an upgrade version and can only be used if you have a previous version of OS X installed. That means if you erase your hard drive, then you will have to reinstall OS X 10.1 before you can upgrade/reinstall Panther.
3. So, the first thing you need to do is what I already suggested. When I said boot from the OS X Installer, I mean from the Panther Installer Disk 1. I suggest that you first go through the disk and permissions repair I initially recommended, and let's see where that gets us.
If you think you need to have someone else do this for you, then you should locate the nearest Apple store, retailer, or service center and take the computer there for service.
naomism - Oct 2, 2005 - 7:22 am
Steven,
I am sorry to have gotten your name wrong in my last reply. Don't know how I did that. You do have the correct information on my current system. I am now running 10.3.9.
I am going to purchase an additional hard drive as back-up before I attempt anything. I will probably not be doing anything for a few weeks.
Thanks again for your help.
Naomi
I am sorry to have gotten your name wrong in my last reply. Don't know how I did that. You do have the correct information on my current system. I am now running 10.3.9.
I am going to purchase an additional hard drive as back-up before I attempt anything. I will probably not be doing anything for a few weeks.
Thanks again for your help.
Naomi
skapp - Oct 2, 2005 - 11:43 am
Kris,
I beg to differ on your observations. Her TechTool Deluxe disk came with a computer that originally had 10.1 installed according to her post. It would not be compatible with Panther. In reality the only versions of TechTool that are reliably safe to use for repairs are the TechTool Pro 4.0.x versions.
She has reported two applications that are not launching, Safari and Mozilla. It's unlikely that the preference files for both of these applications are corrupted. It would hardly justify tossing the entire Preferences folder to address problems with two applications. There are several other potential causes for her problem that could be addressed rather than arbitrarily tossing the Preferences folder.
Inasmuch as repairing permissions requires the /Library/Receipts folder on the startup volume to determine what the correct permissions are, it does not really matter whether you repair permissions from the hard drive or the CD as long as it's the same major OS X version. This is a matter that has long been debated. Reality is it doesn't make any difference as long as the major version of OS X is the same on the CD as that which is installed.
Just some info for you, too!
I beg to differ on your observations. Her TechTool Deluxe disk came with a computer that originally had 10.1 installed according to her post. It would not be compatible with Panther. In reality the only versions of TechTool that are reliably safe to use for repairs are the TechTool Pro 4.0.x versions.
She has reported two applications that are not launching, Safari and Mozilla. It's unlikely that the preference files for both of these applications are corrupted. It would hardly justify tossing the entire Preferences folder to address problems with two applications. There are several other potential causes for her problem that could be addressed rather than arbitrarily tossing the Preferences folder.
Inasmuch as repairing permissions requires the /Library/Receipts folder on the startup volume to determine what the correct permissions are, it does not really matter whether you repair permissions from the hard drive or the CD as long as it's the same major OS X version. This is a matter that has long been debated. Reality is it doesn't make any difference as long as the major version of OS X is the same on the CD as that which is installed.
Just some info for you, too!
skapp - Oct 2, 2005 - 10:26 pm
Kris,
Not to belabor the point, but you said:
It seems to me that "most of the" doesn't mean two preference files. If I'm mistaken in my interpretation, then I apologize for taking you to task on the matter. BTW, if you look at my first reply to her, creating a new account was one of my recommendations, so you and I are on the same track.
As for repairing permissions from the Installer CD. Disk Utility uses the Receipts folder that is located on the volume being repaired. It must do that because there is no Receipts folder on the CD itself. Because DU uses the Receipts folder on the volume being repaired you must use the version of DU that is the same as the version installed on the volume being repaired, i.e., don't mix versions. Running DU from the hard drive itself precludes any problem. Running DU from an Installer CD could be a problem if the Installer CD is for a different major version of OS X than the one installed on the volume being repaired. This is the reason most people advise repairing permissions from the hard drive. However, as long as the DU versions are from the same release, it doesn't make any difference. We've debated and researched this quite thoroughly over in the Apple forums.
When I recommend a user repair their hard drive and/or permissions I always state, "Be sure to use the installer for the version of OS X you have installed."
And, BTW, I don't mind the interchange. No doubt we'll both learn from the experience.
Not to belabor the point, but you said:
then most of the ~/Library/Preferences/ probably need to be removed, as well as the entire ~/Library/Caches/ folder.
It seems to me that "most of the" doesn't mean two preference files. If I'm mistaken in my interpretation, then I apologize for taking you to task on the matter. BTW, if you look at my first reply to her, creating a new account was one of my recommendations, so you and I are on the same track.
As for repairing permissions from the Installer CD. Disk Utility uses the Receipts folder that is located on the volume being repaired. It must do that because there is no Receipts folder on the CD itself. Because DU uses the Receipts folder on the volume being repaired you must use the version of DU that is the same as the version installed on the volume being repaired, i.e., don't mix versions. Running DU from the hard drive itself precludes any problem. Running DU from an Installer CD could be a problem if the Installer CD is for a different major version of OS X than the one installed on the volume being repaired. This is the reason most people advise repairing permissions from the hard drive. However, as long as the DU versions are from the same release, it doesn't make any difference. We've debated and researched this quite thoroughly over in the Apple forums.
When I recommend a user repair their hard drive and/or permissions I always state, "Be sure to use the installer for the version of OS X you have installed."
And, BTW, I don't mind the interchange. No doubt we'll both learn from the experience.
skapp - Oct 10, 2005 - 10:43 am
Naomi,
You should understand that MacOSX.com is a volunteer help service that is not associated with Apple. Our purpose is to try and provide assistance that supplements or replaces that which you would receive were you to contact Apple's telephone support services. Our goal is to try and help you solve your problems, so if you are not certain about what to do or do not understand recommendations provided, then you need to tell us so we can continue to help you solve your problem. However, you never responded further to tell us you were concerned about the recommendations provided. I'm sorry we weren't able to satisfy your needs, but had you provided additional comments we might have been able to allay your fears and help you get your Mac running properly.
As for recommending technicians, that's something you would need to contact Apple for. All I can suggest along this line is to contact an Apple store, retailer, or service center in your area. You should be able to locate them in your local Yellow Pages.
You should understand that MacOSX.com is a volunteer help service that is not associated with Apple. Our purpose is to try and provide assistance that supplements or replaces that which you would receive were you to contact Apple's telephone support services. Our goal is to try and help you solve your problems, so if you are not certain about what to do or do not understand recommendations provided, then you need to tell us so we can continue to help you solve your problem. However, you never responded further to tell us you were concerned about the recommendations provided. I'm sorry we weren't able to satisfy your needs, but had you provided additional comments we might have been able to allay your fears and help you get your Mac running properly.
As for recommending technicians, that's something you would need to contact Apple for. All I can suggest along this line is to contact an Apple store, retailer, or service center in your area. You should be able to locate them in your local Yellow Pages.
naomism - Oct 10, 2005 - 10:18 pm
Steven,,
I am grateful for your attempt to help me and I wasn't certain how to respond to your suggestions before backing up my system which I have not yet done and will not be able to do for another couple of weeks. I apologize for that. I am also concerned that I will not be able to handle any complications that may result from my fix-it attempts.
I did not realize that you were volunteering your help and I wanted to let you know again that I do appreciate your suggestions. However, I think I need more hand-holding and that is not your fault -- it is really Apple that has left me with no way to get the technical phone support that I would have liked to continue. Apparently, i was only eligible for three years of support after purchasing my computer, but my problems began after that time -shortly after I updated my operating system. Furthermore, there was no way to continue paying a fee to continue the Apple support that I needed as a result of updating the operating system to Panther. If you could talk me through what I need to do and help me when it fails or something else fails, it would be perfect.
My criticism of Apple and its policies in no way reflects on the honest attempt you made to help me. Despite the criticisms I have heard of Dell, my husband has had wonderful phone support from them (from India to be sure) but with no time limit for phone help. For those of us that are not technically sophisticated (and my husband is) the phone support is essential.
Thanks again,
Naomi
I am grateful for your attempt to help me and I wasn't certain how to respond to your suggestions before backing up my system which I have not yet done and will not be able to do for another couple of weeks. I apologize for that. I am also concerned that I will not be able to handle any complications that may result from my fix-it attempts.
I did not realize that you were volunteering your help and I wanted to let you know again that I do appreciate your suggestions. However, I think I need more hand-holding and that is not your fault -- it is really Apple that has left me with no way to get the technical phone support that I would have liked to continue. Apparently, i was only eligible for three years of support after purchasing my computer, but my problems began after that time -shortly after I updated my operating system. Furthermore, there was no way to continue paying a fee to continue the Apple support that I needed as a result of updating the operating system to Panther. If you could talk me through what I need to do and help me when it fails or something else fails, it would be perfect.
My criticism of Apple and its policies in no way reflects on the honest attempt you made to help me. Despite the criticisms I have heard of Dell, my husband has had wonderful phone support from them (from India to be sure) but with no time limit for phone help. For those of us that are not technically sophisticated (and my husband is) the phone support is essential.
Thanks again,
Naomi
skapp - Oct 11, 2005 - 10:14 am
If your situation hasn't changed any from your original post, then I would urge you to do what I first suggested - repair the hard drive and permissions. I detailed that procedure for you, so follow those instructions. After you complete that process I want you to do the second item I suggested - create a new user account. This is done by the following:
1. Open the Accounts preference pane in System Preferences.
2. Click on the large lock icon and authenticate with your password.
3. Click on the "+" icon that's above the lock icon. A dialog will appear in which you can enter the information for a new user account.
4. Fill in the account information, check the box "Allow user to administer ..." and then click on the Create button.
5. Quit System Preferences.
Now log out of your account and then log in to the new account you just created. See if your applications now work properly. Report back to me your results.
Again, if you truly feel uncertain about doing all of this yourself, then you should take the computer to a local service center and let them fix it for you. If there is an Apple User Group in your locale, then you may find "free" help from them. Unfortunately, I don't know where you are or if there is a user group in your area.
1. Open the Accounts preference pane in System Preferences.
2. Click on the large lock icon and authenticate with your password.
3. Click on the "+" icon that's above the lock icon. A dialog will appear in which you can enter the information for a new user account.
4. Fill in the account information, check the box "Allow user to administer ..." and then click on the Create button.
5. Quit System Preferences.
Now log out of your account and then log in to the new account you just created. See if your applications now work properly. Report back to me your results.
Again, if you truly feel uncertain about doing all of this yourself, then you should take the computer to a local service center and let them fix it for you. If there is an Apple User Group in your locale, then you may find "free" help from them. Unfortunately, I don't know where you are or if there is a user group in your area.
naomism - Oct 11, 2005 - 3:22 pm
Thanks again Steven. I will try your suggestions but am tied up for the next three weeks.
skapp - Oct 11, 2005 - 5:40 pm
Contact me when you get the chance. I'll be around.
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