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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Windows software on Intel Notebook.

kiwidb - Jan 2, 2007 - 5:36 pm

Hi.

I am considering purchasing a 17" MacPro Intel Core 2 Duo Notebook.

I have a bunch of Windows XP software ( Microsoft Offfice, And Dreamweaver 8,
Flash 8, Photoshop CS2, Illustrator CS2...) that I am very reluctant to repurchase, since they are all new.

I understand the new intel processors can run XP and OS X side by side, but I would like to know if these softwares are even compatible and if I am heading for trouble to expect to operate such memory hungry programs with Bootcamp.

Does anyone have experience or knowledge about the cross platform issues and is this likely to be an issue with the upcoming release of both Vista and Leopard OSs?

Kiwidb.

vinko - Jan 3, 2007 - 7:06 am

Dear David,

My name is Vinko and I will attempt to assist you.

Please understand that Apple's technology, code named "BootCamp" is a piece of ulitiy application that allows you to partition your Intel Mac 's hard drive with a Windows OS partition, then has a user friendly mechanism to allow you to switch between Windows OS and Mac OS X at boot up. You can easily switch between the 2 OS at boot time of your Intel Mac.

The Boot Camp technology is not what enables you to execute Windows applications on your Intel Mac. That is accomplish when you installed a licensed copy of Windows OS onto the Windows partition that you use Boot Camp to create.

I can tell you that all versions of Windows OS including the up coming Windows Vista runs very quickly on Intel Macs with enough RAM (1.5GB - 2GB or more). Of course the more memory the better. As Windows OS is a memory hungry OS.

As for using Windows applications on your Intel Macintosh, Apple's Boot Camp technology is not the only solution. You can use what is called "Virtual Machine" technology. All Intel processors used by Apple's Intel Macs have Virtual Machine technology built-in and the Mac OS X already make this technology available. To take advantage of this technology you will need Virtual Machine software like Parallels' "Parallels Desktop". This application is like what is available on the Windows platform from Parallels and VMWare, and VirtualPC on older Macintosh (PowerPC versions).

BTW: VMWare had already announced that they will be releasing a version of VMWare for the Intel Mac first quarter of 2007.

The advantage of Virtual Machine software is that unlike Boot Camp, you do not have to decide whether you're using Windows OS or Mac OS at boot time. You can be using Mac OS X and then when you HAVE to use a Windows application you can double click on the Parallels Desktop application icon and your virtual copy of Windows OS will be started within is own Mac OS X window. In this window is where your Windows OS application will be executed. What ever Windows applications you like to use, you can simply install it into the virtual copy of Windows OS.

One other benefit is that you can drag files back and forth between your Windows OS environment and Mac OS X environments. Even the clipboard is transferable between the two OSs.

Apple has hinted that when the next version of Mac OS X is released, the ability for running Windows application will be even easier, although for exactly how that will work, we will have to wait until next week, when Steve Jobs should be demonstrating the new Mac OS X at MacWorld San Francisco.

As for compatibility, I am not sure what you are asking. Since you started your question by saying that you will not be using Macintosh copies of the applications you listed. Please be more specific so that I can answer your question more precisely.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

-- Vinko

Thank you for using MacOSX.Com's free Mac support.

stottm - Jan 3, 2007 - 7:12 am

It will work. However, you will need to have lot's of RAM! When you run WinXP under a virtual machine such as Parallels or the upcoming VMWare Fusion it takes as much RAM as WinXP normally does. WinXP performs best with at least 1GB's of RAM. However, you still need RAM for the Mac OS X operating system. So when you start up the Virtual Machine it will allocate the necessary RAM for the Guest OS to run. If it doesn't have enough RAM it will run slow. I believe the beta of Parallels now allows you to assign one CPU to the virtual machine to allow it run even faster. VMWare hasn't shipped their Fusion product yet and for the moment Parallels is ahead in releases and technology but that may change as VMWare is a leader on Linux/Windows.

I would recommend 2GB's which is the max in a laptop. You may be able to buy the RAM at Crucial for less then from Apple and still ensure you are getting quality RAM. Do not buy cheap generic RAM as Apple hardware is very picky about it's RAM quality and will crash or freeze if you put shoddy RAM in it.

I stand corrected... As of right now Apple is shipping the 17" MacBookPro with 2GB's of RAM with the option of 3GB's of RAM for an additional $575 USD - This is actually a really good price. If I get the RAM from Crucial a single 2GB DIMM costs $841.49! You only have two memory slots so to get to 3GB's it would have to be (2GB x1) + (1GB x1) so buy from Apple, it's a better deal. The default RAM config from Apple is (1GB x 2) meaning 2 1GB DIMM's. So if you upgrade the RAM afterwards you end up having to replace one of the two 1GB DIMMS with a 2G DIMM and paying a lot more. Because it's such a good package deal, buy 3GB's of RAM, the more the merrier!

FYI, the new Photoshop CS3 is in public beta and is now a Universal Binary which means it's compiled for both Intel & PowerPC Mac's. Early reports state it is many times faster then CS2 on a Mac. Illustrator CS3, etc. will also be coming along soon. Keeping in mind that CS2 on WinXP was faster then CS2 on a Mac. Also understanding that a public beta will have debug code turned on thereby slowing it down a bit as well. This means you can look forward to upgrading to CS3 when it ships. I don't know if Adobe will let you upgrade cross platform but I don't see why not.

Bootcamp is something else entirely. This is a beta tool from Apple to allow you to dual boot the laptop between WinXP and Mac OS X. It includes WinXP drivers for all the Apple hardware such as the keyboard and the builtin iSight camera, etc. It will non-destructively repartition your disk. Bootcamp will be included in Leopard. You don't need bootcamp to run Parallels or VMWare's Fusion virtual machines. If you are going to dual boot you won't need to double your RAM. It's faster to load a virtual machine then to reboot the computer.

Bottom line is you are better off going with the maximum RAM you can load a laptop up with. Or as much RAM as you can afford for a MacPro 64bit Xeon workstation (16GB maximum -- overkill) as you need to give the operating system (both Mac OS X & WinXP/Vista) enough elbow room to run efficiently as well as still providing enough RAM for the applications to load and then even more RAM to handle large high resolution images while you're working on them. 3GB's in a 17" MacBook Pro would be perfect for your needs to run large virtual machines. As time moves forward and you upgrade to Leopard and Vista it will still work. As the applications are upgraded, you are going to want to get the Mac versions.

You might have to call Adobe and ask them to give you upgrade codes. After having spent so much money over the years they should let you upgrade from the WinXP platform apps to the Apple platform without charging full purchase price. I know the codes vary between Mac and Windows versions. Call the Adobe Store 800-833-6687 from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific time, seven days a week. Go here to find a number outside the US or Canada - http://www.adobe.com/support/intlsupport.html

Everyone I know who have switched from a PC to a Mac has not regretted it! There are more and more people switching now that the Mac is using PC compatible hardware (Intel, etc.). The major stumbling block being your exact position today... Thousands invested in existing Windows software. Virtual Machine technology is very mature, so mature that it's being used on server platforms to host multiple server operating systems in production. IBM has run thousands of VM's on an IBM 360 mainframe. Windows Servers are already shipping with VM options that can host Linux in production. Developers are running Linux workstations with 3-4 VM's for WinXP, Win2k3 Server, etc. To test their software in a realistic environment without needing multiple computers. The only problem is needing enough disk space and RAM to make it practical. Thankfully, both disk space and RAM are getting cheaper every day.

kiwidb - Jan 3, 2007 - 1:54 pm

Dear Vinko and Stottm,

Thank you.

Between the two of you you have filled in the picture that gives some clarity to make my decision to go with the MacBook Pro. I'll opt for 3GB memory and check out parallels Desktop for now, looking into when VMware Fusion for mac is to be released.

My earlier intention was to go with a Dell E1705 notebook, but I started hearing all kinds of negative feedback re: Customer service and Technical Assistance.

Do either of you have any experience / advice re: Apple's customer service (plans) and Tech Support? It's been a few years since I had any dealings with Apple service and things have definitely changed in that whole business.

Thanks again,
David.

stottm - Jan 3, 2007 - 9:26 pm

Apple Support - Do make sure you buy the AppleCare 3 year extended warranty, just in case. It also covers tech support. You get much better support with AppleCare then without it. A coworker of mine bought a Dell laptop for his wife and a MacBook for himself and hasn't had a single problem with the MacBook, the wife's Dell was having a BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) right out of the box. So he called Dell and got his money back. Meanwhile, Apple released a newer MacBook with Intel Core Duo 2 cpu's and it was cheaper then the earlier MacBook so he called Apple and they swapped the laptop (a month old) and refunded him the difference. That's a typical Apple policy, if you just buy something within about 60 days they will generally help you upgrade to the newest thing that just shipped.

Customer service with Apple is almost always excellent; not to say they don't screw up sometimes. i.e. heard someone had a hard disk fail and they AppleCare tech's setup an appointment with the Genius Bar at the Apple retail store rather then just shipping a replacement drive. This delayed the process considerably due to the New Years Holiday weekend.

Oh BTW, don't yank the magnetic power cord all the time. It's meant to unplug in the event you trip over the cord but it's not sturdy enough to endure being yanked all the time. Don't force it when you plug it in either, let the magnet do the work of making the connection. Seems some folks have been doing that and exposing the bare copper on the power cord or otherwise causing a short circuit and the power supply cable/connector melts. Be gentle with it, grab it by the plug and not the cord and you'll be just fine. It's not a design problem it's abuse.