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TICKET ARCHIVE -> x11, gimp, ies4osx not working.

drkib - Apr 20, 2008 - 5:53 pm

I'm a novice when it comes to computers. This is my first Mac, a Macbook with 2.2GHz Intel, 2G RAM and 250GB HDD. OS X 10.5.2. In my work I needed to use outlook web access in an Internet Explorer type interface and I need to use descent image editing software.*
For OWA, I downloaded ies4osx (I had to download something called Darwine first) and chose Internet Explorer 6.0 SP1 to install (www.kronenberg.org/ies4osx/) and initially this worked fine. I noticed that every time I started IE, another program called x11 started up, I assumed this was part of the deal when using IE, so let it run.*
I then needed to edit images, and was too tight-fisted to buy photoshop for Mac. So I found GIMP, went to the site, where I followed to the word, the instructions. First, I inserted my OSX disc, went to optional installs, ticked the x11 box and clicked the "upgrade" button. Once this operation was completed, I then read the bit that said if this was the first time I was installing x11 from the OSX disc, I had to reinstall the 10.5.2 combo update, otherwise GIMP will crash. So I downloaded the update and tried to install it, only to be told by my computer that I wasn't allowed to do this. When I tried running GIMP, it wouldn't start. So I went back to the website, which told me that if I was having trouble with this, I could use the older Tiger version, which should work anyway. So I downloaded the Tiger version, and installed it. This will not launch properly either. And no x11 application, this will not start.*
Most of the time, a GIMP icon appears in the dock, sometimes with an x11 icon, sometimes without, either way, GIMP stops responding and I have to force quit.
When I try to launce x11 on its own from the utilities folder, it does not open a terminal window.
*What is worse, IE wont work. So I tried everything, eventually removing IE, Darwine, and x11 (x11 from OSX disc) *and reinstalling them. x11.app appears in the utilities folder, but doesn't seem to run. When trying to reinstall IE 6.0, the installer gets stuck at "creating winprefix".
*Eventually I bought codeweavers which lets me run an old version of Photoshop, but this is very slow. Tried to get help from Apple, but they were very, very unhelpful, basically telling me to reinstall x11 (which I already did) and that they cant help with 3rd party software.*
*Can anyone help me and save me from having to install Windows on my Mac, which I really, really dont want to do.**

Serenak - Apr 21, 2008 - 7:04 pm

Hello Kolitha

thanks for using macosx.com and I will try to hel and advise you...

OK - you have got into a bit of a pickle here...

You have to understand there are 2 versions of X11 that Apple have used - up to 10.4 they used the XFree86 version - but in Leopard (10.5.x) changed to the "more official" X.org version, we won't go into the technicalities here... The problem was (as with any such switch) that some things changed, some worked and a few broke... and in 10.5 and even 10.5.1 there were some problems in the version of X11 Apple shipped (mostly that bugfixes the X.org team made didn't get into the version Apple shipped and that broke some stuff)

Now in theory you could remove the X.org version from 10.5 and put back the Xfree86 version and that made older X11 reliant Mac apps work - but a) it was never easy b) in my experience it was not reliable and c) most X11 binaries for Mac (i.e GIMP and Inkscape) have been updated to expect the X.org version (2.1.4 as we speak IIRC)

So unfortunately by trying to go back and forth you have got a nasty mix up (don't feel bad here... I got into exactly the same bind when I moved up to Leopard... whatever I changed seemed to just fix one thing and break 4 more - or just make the situation worse!)

My experience is this.. 10.5 X11 was badly broken - I tried to go back to the Xfree86 version that worked before... that half worked, but the next GIMP updated wanted X11 2.1.x (the X.org version)

If you really need X11 then what you need to do is totally remove all traces of X11 and start again as the 2 versions in particular handle booting X11 reliant apps differently...

However (FWIW) depending on what image editing you want to do you might want to look at the free LiveQuartz here http://www.rhapsoft.com/ and or ImageTricks (free with upgrade available) here http://www.belightsoft.com/products/...s/overview.php or the very PS like but only $60ish Pixelmator (90% of PS for 10% the price) and free demo available.... here http://www.pixelmator.com/

If you really need to use X11 then http://aaroniba.net/articles/x11-leopard.html has some help based on removing 10.5s X11 with a view to installing 10.4s... Use it to remove all traces of X11 you can find. Do NOT however follow the install 10.4 X11...

Try reinstalling the 10.5.2 combo update... then go here
http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/.../wiki/X112.1.4 and install the latest X11

You need to get back to a "clean" leopard X11 - then update it to the 2.1.4 X.org version... then if need be reinstall gimp...

BTW if you must have Gimp you are using the Mac binary Gimp aren't you? Choose one here http://darwingimp.sourceforge.net/download.html It will make life a lot easier - yes it needs the latest X11... but it doesn't need ports or Fink or Darwine...

if this doesn't work the "simplest" remedy is probably an Archive and Install (Preserving Users and Settings) - Tedious I know, but use Customise to kill all the Languages you don't need and all the printer descriptions you have no need of, and don't reinstall all the iApps you already have and it will be 1/4 the time, or less - I promise you)

Once you can get Gimp and possibly Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/download/?lang=en) working than you know you have a good X11 2.1.4

Then you can worry about using Darwine or Crossover (btw Crossover is very good on the stuff it /does/ support.. and be amazed on how much stuff "not supported" will work OK too)

However I WOULD very much point you to the www.pure-mac.com pages... they don't list EVERY Mac app ever... but they make a good stab at it - you may be amazed at how much FREE stuff is avaliable

Also I would point you to my local MUG Links page here http://www.suffolkmacusergroup.co.uk/Links.html there is a selection of VERY good freeware links there (I know I put them there )

Hope that helps

come back if you are still stuck

drkib - Apr 22, 2008 - 6:25 pm

Hi there. Many thanks for the advice, it worked. I still could not reinstall the combo update, but managed to get the Tiger version of Gimp to work (downloaded from the wilbur loves apple site). There is a native version (experimental) at http://gimp-app.sourceforge.net, this seems to work at first glance, might be worth recommending to others.

ies4osx now installs and works fine, although it is not the cleanest nor easiest to use of interfaces, it provides more functionality for owa than safari or firefox.

Just want to say thanks, I'm very grateful for your help.